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Voice Coaches Radio #432 – The Audiobook Episode
Voice Coaches Radio. Everything voiceover.
And welcome to this week's edition of Voice Coaches Radio. I am Josh, he is Sam, we are DE lighted to have you joining us. Sam, how we doing?
Great, and that was the truncated song that you just did there, Josh.
Well, I, I, I started to do, I wasn't planning on singing the song, and then, uh, and then it started happening, and I was like, I don't know.
But the song is... So you Josh. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. The song is You One of these days I'll just start breaking out into song. We should have, you know what we should have, we should have a, uh, a, a voice coach's radio sing-along song.
Oh, this is good. That's great. Old bouncing ball. Yeah. Right along with us.
Yeah. We'll, we'll transcribe every word that we say and then people can see a little video.
Voice coaches radio karaoke.
Yeah, that'd be awesome. Voice coaches. Radio karaoke karaoke edition.
You know what karaoke means? No, I have no idea. You know what karaoke means? No. Oh, it means. It's, uh, I believe it's Japanese and it means, uh, empty orchestra.
Oh, wow.
Whoa, how deep is that? Empty orchestra.
Wow, and you are filling in the orchestra.
Yes, right, right. Interesting note also, astronaut. Yeah. Do you know what astronaut means?
No.
Again, I'm, I'm in the dark here. Astra is, or Asan Astral is Stars. Oh, sure. And, uh, the, not the, um, not stars.
What God. The, uh, the, the basis of that, uh, is, um, uh, sailor.
So they are stars. It's Nau, sailors. Oh, Nole, I see. Yes. Star sailors. And that's how I'm gonna refer to astronauts from now on. Oh, uh, Neil Armstrong, yeah, I remember him, he was that famous star sailor. He was such a
great star sailor.
Mmm, star sailor. Anywho, words are fun. I
love it, that's awesome. Words are very fun.
And speaking of words, we're gonna talk a lot about words today,
Josh. We are, we are. And not about the fact that I read a book about the dictionary. But we
could. We could. We could. We could very well. Did you read that book? Did you read that book? This is the Professor and the Madman? Yeah. No, I've never read it.
It's on
my to read list. It's super interesting. It's about the, uh, the writing of the Oxford English Dictionary, which sounds amazing to begin with. Riveting. Riveting. And, uh, you know it took like 70 years to write that thing? I don't
doubt it. Have you ever seen one? Like, especially the OED? Like the... Oh, man.
Yeah, it's, uh, yeah. And, and, and I can't even imagine having to, like, come up with all these. And so not only did they have to come up with them, they had to come up with examples for all of them, all and, and multiple examples for every different type of usage for a word. So you look at most, some words, you're like, okay, well, that's, that's not too, too bad.
But like, there are words that have like 15 different, you know, uses and you have to find multiple examples in literature, in classic literature. of each. And, uh, it took a, it took a lot of work. And the basis of the book is that they asked for help from people, uh, in the area, uh, to, you know, send in examples to send in, you know, the, the, the literature examples of usage.
And, and there was a guy who sent in a ton. I mean, it was a massive contributor. Um, and, uh, he was an American who was living in England, uh, and was living in an insane asylum. Um, Where, uh, he was put after he murdered a guy. Oh, wow. And, uh, the story behind that, as well as the, uh, the ensuing story about, uh, him and the main editor for the, uh, the original Oxford English Dictionary is surprisingly fascinating.
Hmm. That sounds interesting. They made a movie, they made a movie out of it with Mel Gibson, so I gotta be honest, I haven't seen it. Mellie Gibson? Mellie Gibson, that he is my
what?
Um, so yeah, so that's, uh,
anywho. Oh, that's amazing. I used to have to, I used the OED in college a bit and I enjoyed it actually.
It's super interesting to like look at the, a word and not only do you get the definition, you get different varying definitions. You get how like the evolution of the word, how it was used at different times throughout. Yeah, this is, I think it's really fascinating. So I agree. But speaking of books, let's talk about.
Audio books today because you and I both now have some experience on the audio book front and a lot of people are curious about audio books. A lot of people come to our program
interested in the audio book world, understandably,
understandably, absolutely. So let's dive into this. Josh, you are in the throes of making an audio book.
I'm right now. I'd say it's the infancy is, uh, is where I am. Into the fray of audiobooks. So far I'm pretty sure I've done the intro, and that's about it. That's it? I thought you did a couple chapters. No, I have not, uh, I intended to. I have not. I've done the introduction, uh, and the foreword. I've done the foreword.
Okay, so a couple, a couple segments. Yeah. And, uh, but I haven't actually gotten to the, to the meat and potatoes of the, uh, of the book just yet. How has it
been for you? What is your experience doing? The forward and then everything that you've done so far. It's
uh, it's different. It's different. It's funny, you know, we'll get people to come in.
They're like, yeah, I want to do audiobooks. I love to read. I'm like, awesome. That's not what audiobooks are. That's that's you're reading. I mean, obviously you're reading. Sure, but it's it's not normal reading. It is exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting because you have to. It's be hyper aware of everything and and and so what I'm doing and I know Sam what you did also is we're also kind of Producing it at the same time.
Yes And so, you know your your mind is in you know Five or six different places at once trying to make sure that a you're saying things correctly Be that you're you know, your pacing is good and your inflection is good. And you know, there's so many things things you're trying to work on at once that sometimes you forget what the actual point is.
You have to kind of step back from it. And, uh, it, it's, uh, it's challenging. It is absolutely challenging. And the book I'm reading is not exactly a, uh, uh, you know, like a very serious heavy book by any stretch of the imagination, which I guess makes it a little bit easier. But it's, uh, it's, it's very challenging.
Not that I didn't think it would be, but it's, it definitely is. It's not the Professor and the Madman? It is, it is not. It is not. There are no, uh, No, no murder, murders. Mystery intrigue. No, it's, uh, sabotage. It's saboteurs. It's an eating manual. . Hey, still, it's, it's about, it's about, it's an eating plan for, for, you know, a healthy weight and lifestyle, which by the way, I, I use.
A book that you
actually would use in real life. I currently do. I own the book before I ever, uh, I've owned the book for years and, uh, and, and do currently use that plan, which I think it's also making this a little bit more helpful because I'm very familiar with the, um, you know, with what goes on there.
Now, what's interesting about it is that it varies chapter to chapter. So one chapter is on a topic about it. You know, on, um, metabolism or on, you know, uh, macronutrients. And then, and then, you know, the following chapter is a testimonial. And then it's another, you know, meat and potatoes chapter. No pun intended.
And then the next one is, you know, another, thank you. I'll be here all week. And the next one is another testimonial. And the testimonials are interesting because it's men, it's women, it's young, it's old. Uh, and I, I. Trying to figure out how I best want to do that. Oh, that's cool Do I just do it myself? Do I just do my voice?
Do I try to change the voice a little bit? Do I does it vary? I think it does naturally, you know, if if Depending on who uh who the person is who's doing the talking but I don't know and I and I haven't really Gotten down to recording those just yet, but that's going to be an issue. I'm not really sure how I'm going to approach that.
Uh, what do you, what are you thinking? You don't have, you don't have any
thoughts on it right now. My thoughts on it right now, or is this going to, it's going to mainly be my voice, but I think invariably the, the person, so say it's a, it's a young woman, I think, you know, the way I inflect and the way I approach the piece will be a little bit different overall.
Um. I think if you were to just listen to it in a vacuum, it wouldn't sound very much different from me, but listening to it right after you just listen to a regular chapter, or listening to it right next to another testimonial of, say, like, an older gentleman, I think you'll be able to tell slight differences.
I think, and I think that's what I want. I want subtle, subtle differences. But again, in a vacuum, I don't want it to sound like I'm doing a voice or a character, because I don't think that would fit. That's interesting.
I, I find when I, when I'm working on audiobooks, or in my experience even producing audiobooks, or producing for other people, what, the way I look at audiobooks is like a sliding scale.
And on that sliding scale are a number of characters. So, What's fun about audiobooks is that you are not just the narrator. You're not just one voice. Like, if you're doing a commercial spot, or if you're doing, uh, a training module where you are the same voice the whole time, it's like, hey, welcome to this place.
Let me tell you about X, Y, and Z. You are the one character the whole time. Audiobooks have this varying degree. You have multiple characters. It's almost as if, especially if you're doing fiction, but in your case, this is interesting. This applies to nonfiction as well. You have these other voices that are there, so you have your narrator voice, which is something akin to Josh, and then you have these testimonial voices, these other characters coming in.
What I, the way I like to think of audiobooks, to make it a little easier, it's a sliding scale, and all of the characters are on the scale, and you're sliding in and out of narration and into the character, so you always have one foot. In the narrative world, and this also helps too when you're in narration, especially this is a little bit more fiction oriented, but I think it does apply to what you're doing, because when you're, what, what is good storytelling, good storytelling, even if you're talking in the third person, if I was telling you a story, I would still put myself in the scenes, like, so there I was, Josh, I'm at the bus stop, and Mike, I'm waiting, I'm waiting hours for this bus, and while I'm saying this, what colors the words, what does the work, isn't, isn't me talking in the third person, it's me as If I'm living the moment, even if I'm talking the third person, does
that make sense?
It does. It does. And because I think that The listener is kind of living vicariously through you. And, and they want to have those experiences that you are describing. And also, when you put yourself in that situation, you are now an expert in that situation. And so you are the only person who really should be telling the listener this story, right?
You're the expert. You were there. The authority. Yeah. I was waiting by the bus stop. Well, what was it like? Well, I can tell you because I was there as opposed to... Yes. Oh, I love that. Yeah, as opposed to, you know, like, well, he was standing there. And so, well, why am I not... Listening to him. Why, you know, if he was there, he knows what happened.
You're just kind of passing along the information, playing a big game of telephone. I want to hear it from the source. Well, now you are. Because I
am the source. Oh, that's great. Again, we're superheroes again. Like, you are solving, it's, you can apply the same frame again. You are doing something, you're telling the story for an explicit reason, and that reason is that you know something.
It's simple quite simply put that's a lovely idea especially for
nonfiction. Yeah, I think so because again when you're reading a nonfiction book You you're probably aren't gonna be an expert in that particular field Yeah, I certainly am NOT in in regards to this book Although I do have some background in it sure another book that I'm hopefully gonna be end up Uh, end up reading for the same author is a, about a professional weightlifter.
I do weightlifting, not, you
are a professional weightlifter. Not like that
guy does absolutely a professional weightlifter. That guy was a, you know, a world champion is John North. He was a world champion. I, uh, am weak. Um, but you know, so I, am I, am I the foremost expert in that? No, not even close, not even close, but.
In that book, you are reading in John's voice, in his voice. So that way, you are the expert, because you're reading his words as him. So that's, that's the acting portion of the, of the voice acting. I'm acting as if you're an expert. Yeah, I'm a conduit for his words. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, very much so. That's a great way of putting it.
That was deep. That was super deep. But that's the idea, too. It doesn't even have to be deep. It can be really simple. Like, you in the story, you are the, you are the voice of the story. That's the conduit. Like, that's what you're doing. You are giving voice to somebody else's story. And what's the best way to do that is to create a connection to it.
To tie yourself to the story. Draw from your own experience. Talk to somebody. Actually save, like, solve their problem. Save the day. Have a good intention. This is what we do as human beings. I love that idea of putting yourself in their shoes. But more, I guess, what I'm, what I'm interested in as well as your, how are you going to navigate this new, the, the power lifting one?
How? What's your approach? What do you think?
Ah, that's a good question. Um, you know, I'm not sure I'm gonna honestly, I was just gonna take it a chapter at a time and really kind of delve into 11 chapter at a time. Um, which I don't know. I mean, I want to get an idea of the whole macro. I, you know, the book in a macro sense, but I think the best way to approach it is to dive into a smaller world section and fully embrace that to the best of your ability and then move on to the next one.
Is that what you're doing
in the nutrition book as well? Like you're basically just diving into a section. Is that the
same? Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much. And again, I have a little bit more, uh, you know, a little bit more intel into this one. Sure. Um, and it's also not, you know, the subject matter is a lot, you know, it's a lot lighter of a, of a piece in general, but I, I, I do, I, I, I think that's, I guess that's just kind of my personality into it.
So mechanically, what are you doing when you, how many pages, let's say it's like five pages, 10 pages that you've read? Uh, yeah, something like that. So when you did those five pages, whatever, however many it was, what were you thinking the whole time? Like, how were you bringing,
how were you bringing five...
Don't mess this up, Ugh, don't, ugh, Josh! Come on, buddy, don't mess it
up! I know, I know, that's what I'm thinking all the
time.
But this is great! I mean, uh, in life, right? In everything that you
do, yeah. You know, you, you know, it's um, uh, the things I'm, I'm really trying to pay attention to. Um, slowing down.
Okay, good, good. Having a conversational tone because it's a very conversation the the so the guy who the book is in the voice of is a very Kind of laid back low key guy and it's written in his voice like me. Yeah So yes, yes, exactly exactly carry on and and so, you know I I'm trying to it's written in a conversational way with asides and snarky comments and sarcasm which fits me And so I'm trying to, to, to find that to not, um, you know, be too, uh, you know, to not, to not sell it so much.
And it's funny because one of the things I was told when I first sent them a, a, a, you know, a, a passage from it that I had done, they were like, it kind of sounds like you're, you're doing a commercial. Mm. Interesting. In one respect, I was like, yeah, I can back off that a little bit on another respect. I basically said, look, this is the beginning of the book.
You're introducing an idea and you're trying to tell people why it's the best thing and they should do it, which hello, I don't care if it's in a book. It's still a commercial. You're still selling something. But I get where they were coming from. So I'm trying to keep that in mind as well. Obviously, I'm trying to make sure I don't mess up the words.
You know what else I'm doing is I'm really focusing on the phrases. The phrasing, getting that phrasing correct. And a lot of times I'll go through a line and be like, that's not how we'd say that. How we do that. And I'll, I'll actually read through it and make notes like, all right, I want to pause here.
Okay. I want a little more of a, I'll add an ellipses there to make sure that I add a little, a little drama to it. So trying to Try but basically what I'm doing is I'm reading it out loud to myself and taking notes on it as I read it Then I'm going in the booth with those notes and trying to enact that.
Hmm Um, and and then you know trying not to get overwhelmed by all the different things trying to just when I'm in there in the booth slowing down being conversational watching that phrasing and Then listening to it afterwards. How do you make
those decisions? the phrasing
decisions Honestly I, I read it and, uh, I use my ear, yeah, I use my ear and my, and, and feel, and, um, Is it exactly how he would speak?
I don't know. I've never met him. Um, well, it doesn't, that doesn't matter
really. It matters how you speak.
Exactly. That's that's interesting. So, so I look at it and I read it out loud a few times and, and figure out the way that I would do it. And that's, that's what I do. And if, and, and when I finish a chapter or whatnot, I'm gonna send it to them for review.
And if he listens to it and is like, that's not how I want it, then okay, then I'll, then I'll change it. But for now, at least I'm taking, you know, Personal responsibility for it and using, uh, using my own taste, my own ear and my own feel. Uh, and, and you talk about it all the time. Developing that ear.
Knowing what sounds, what sounds good. And, you know, I've done this for a while. I, I think I have a decent idea of, of what sounds good. I know what sounds good to me. Yep. And, and that's pretty much what I go with. And if it doesn't sound good to them, okay, well then, then I'll readjust. But for now, at least, uh, I'm gonna do it the way I think it should be done.
And think about
all the pieces that you've produced yourself and how you know how to phrase it just with your ear alone. Just even as you hear somebody doing it, you're like, no, no, no, the phrasing needs to be more like this. Because what you're doing is you're creating the experience, again, for the listener.
You, as a listener... Are in tune with how you want to hear the story. That's what you're doing as a producer. You You're like the audience you're sitting in for the audience and in a way you're you're you're kind of like a Catching the words and if it hits you the right way, you're like yes And if it's not hitting you quite right you can kind of see what feeling you want and that's missing.
You're like, no, no, no, no. We need to add a little bit more of this to create that
feeling. You're the voice of the audience. And, and, and look, it's making assumptions that the audience is going to like the same things that you do, which maybe they will, maybe they won't, but that's, it's kind of what other choice do you have?
And a lot of times you're right. It's I'll do it and be like, no, that didn't, that didn't sound right. Let me try it this way. No, that really didn't sound right. Oh, that's, that was the way I want it. How did I get to there? I tried different things and how do you know which one's the right one? You just.
You're like, okay, that's it. It's a, it's a thing that you hear it. You know, it, it's just kind of a, you're like, yep, that was, that was definitely the one. Now, who knows? Maybe, uh, another producer listens to it and you're like, well, maybe you're listening to it. And you're like, you know what? I would change it a little bit.
And I hear the way you would do it. I'm like, Oh, actually, that might be a little bit better. I'm not saying my way is perfect. It's definitely not. But it's the way that, that I know that I personally would do it and that's what I'm going to present because, you know, this audio book, though it's not my writing and it's not my, you know, interpretation.
It's or it is my interpretation. It's my voice. It's your translation. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's my translation of what it is and it's my Personal translation of what it
is and that's what it needs to be too. And that's what's so interesting about this because like yes It's not your book, but you are the one bringing it to life.
And what we need to hear is your humanity We need to hear josh's story to help bring this other story to life. Like you've got to bring the two together It's not just the words on the page. It's josh bringing those words
to life That's that's a good point and I think of like levar burton when he does when he's reading rainbow or levar burton reads He reads in a very Particular way.
He interprets pieces in a very particular way. Some people don't like it. Yeah, I personally do and I think it's a little nostalgia, too But yeah, of course, but when you hear him read it, you know, not only is that a story and yeah The story was good. But the way he did it is very him. It's unique to and that yeah Part of the reason why I mean, the, some of the short stories he reads, I could care less about, but I want to hear him read it.
And I'm not saying people are going to, you know, buy this book to hear me read it. Uh, they could,
some people do that though. I, my folks are, my folks are huge audio book, uh, people and they, they have audio book, uh, authors that they really like, um, uh, voice actors that they really like. It's people do this.
Like this is not unheard of. So who knows, maybe in time. We'll all be listening to Josh in his audiobooks. Oh
man. This is great. I apologize in advance for
that. I want to just touch on the ellipses. I think that is the most important piece of punctuation a voice actor can use. Ira Glass does this thing.
I've heard about his scripts when he's writing. And of course, he is a writer and he's an audio producer. Ira Glass, for those who don't know, producer of This American Life. He doesn't use commas. He doesn't use periods. He uses ellipses. So, he writes, uh, conventionally, he writes normally, but what he's really trying to do, and the thing is, when you listen to him on his radio show, it sounds like he's talking.
All of that is scripted. He is scripting, unless he's doing an interview, all of the, uh, the narration is scripted, but it sounds so conversational because he uses ellipses in between. So literally for him, it's just phrase, to phrase, to phrase, to phrase. And as an, uh, as an audiobook actor, I think this is really important.
It's pivotal. This way you can just work on one phrase at a time. It's like you taking one section at a time, but we can make it even smaller. Take a phrase, imagine that where that comma is, there's ellipses, and you're just pausing a little bit as
if you're looking for the next thing to say. And that's, that's a good point because, you know, when you see the ellipses, some of the first things you think to do is, okay, it's gonna be a, you know, a longer pause.
It doesn't have to be. Yeah, exactly. It leaves it up to your interpretation. Yes. It means there's a pause there, and you can now decide how long that, that pause is. Right. You know, is it a, is it a long... heavy pregnant pause. Maybe. Is it a quick little beat that we move to the next thought and we keep rolling?
Maybe. But that allows you to to kind of make that call. It allows you to to figure out what it should be and what would work
best for it. And the trouble and the reason I'm bringing this up too, I've, uh, for our students who have come through the program, I see it all the time. People love to blow through commas.
They love to blow through periods. They get worried about the time. They become conscious of it and they just start speeding through this other punctuation. If you take punctuation Always like an ellipses. Yeah. Then you can start feeling it out and be like, Oh no, this particular phrase or in between these two phrases doesn't need to be long, but at this moment I can take a lot more time because it's the end of a thought or it's the, or it's the suspension.
Like, I love that when you're in the middle of the line and I'm sure you've had this experience when you're reading something and you all of a sudden you realize that by pausing right before the last phrase will give a little bit of dramatic suspension and effect because that last phrase is super.
Important and you know what I I dealt with a uh, you know, I was working with a student I don't know a few weeks ago. It doesn't matter how long ago it was but uh, they were having trouble with speed They were reading too fast as many of us myself included struggle with and can't relate and And uh, you know, he was having trouble slowing down the words.
Um, but I was like, okay, don't worry about the words Lengthen your pauses. Mm-hmm. Lengthen the pauses between that, between sentences. I love. Yes. And were his words still quicker than I'd like? Yes, they were. Yes. Love it. But did it make the whole piece a lot easier to listen to? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 'cause it allows the listener to process what just happened.
Yes. Even though they made trailing behind a little bit at the time, it gives them a moment to process it. Okay, let's move on to the next one. This is where you being
a producer to is absolutely helping you as an audio, as a voice actor in an audio book. You know what I mean? Because like this is, again, it goes back to that image that I love to use of storytelling story, uh, uh, voice actor, voice teller.
You know what I mean? Like what you were suggesting is that the voice actor be a little bit more conscious of the audience in between sentences. Like you can talk fast. There is nothing wrong with picking up the pace. In fact, that's super conversational, which is why. I really like it and I really lean on it because also it's very natural to me as well to talk very quickly.
But if you take a pause in between, in between a phrase, all of a sudden what came before and after has more weight. Yeah. Love it. I love that idea, Josh. That's
invaluable. Yeah, and it does, and the listener doesn't, never gets lost. Yeah, totally. Never gets lost. You're helping them navigate it. Yeah, they may feel behind for a second.
Yes. But then, okay. Alright, yeah, I'm ready to go. Everything now, now I'm
with you. You're carrying them with you. It's almost as if they're like right behind you and you're making sure that they're catching up before you move on.
It's great. I love that. Yeah, and it absolutely worked for him. And, uh, and, you know, again, I'm with you.
I'm a, I talk fast. Yeah. I mean, going back to my broadcasting hockey where I had to talk fast. Oh, that's great. I'm a fast talker. Yes. And, and that's, it's okay. to an extent. Yes. Um, and there are certain times where certainly I need to, uh, slow down. And I think especially reading in nonfiction. Um, it's something I need to be a little bit more cognizant of.
But adding those pauses in as well will give even more impression that you're being slower, even if you're having trouble actually slowing down the words. Because sometimes you get to a point where you slow down the words enough. You're like, this is uncomfortable. It may not sound uncomfortable to the listener, but to the to the reader, it's like this.
brutal. And so it's, it's troublesome. So, okay, maybe you're going a little faster than I might like, but you're not going too fast because you are allowing the piece to breathe and allowing the listener to catch up. I
love it. I love that. That's a great, that's a great strategy. And I think anyone listening can employ that anytime you're reading.
Think of punctuation as Uh, and now I'm blanking on the word. Parentheses? What am I? Ellipses. Thank you. I was like, yeah, think of it. You think of punctuation as carrots, right? Vegetables. This is good advice. You heard it here on Voice Coaches Radio. Yeah, I totally had a brain fart there for a moment. I'm like, wait, what is that called?
Ellipses.
Sorry, we'll edit that out later. Thank you so
much. I'm so glad we have the power to edit that we never employ while we're
doing this show. We're real, man. We're real. It's raw. Yeah, the raw. It's raw.
Too real to handle. That's right. Or maybe just too legit to quit. Maybe just real and not too real.
Maybe it's just real. This is great. I can't wait to hear more about it as you go forward. And I think we should keep this conversation about audiobooks alive because they are beasts. That's something that people don't talk about. It's a marathon. You really are running. You're doing voice acting for a long time and you have to sustain that same energy on every line.
How do you do that? Me? I always go back. I love this idea of the phrases like just focus on the phrase in front of you. Focus on that phrase, focus on the next phrase. Then we could talk narration. We can talk character and it's again, it's sliding in and out. It's this, it's a little bit more fluid. It's not as, you don't have to play characters as heavy because you are still telling a story.
And that's implied and people know that. And if you try to get too character y, all of a sudden it sounds like a cartoon and that actually turns people off. And then, you know. Yeah.
You look at a commercial, and I like to think of commercials as, you know, 30 second audio books. That's a great way, yeah. You know, if, if, if.
You know, there's a character, or if the emotion goes up, you gotta do it, you gotta do it now, and you gotta do it hard. Because you have to make that delineation right then and there. Whereas with an audiobook, you have time to slowly build things up, to slowly work on that drama, to really take your time and take the listener along with you.
And so you, it is, there's a lot more subtlety involved in that. Because you, you, Have the ability to do that. You have the opportunity to do that. And and it's I I think it's a much more effective way to do it Obviously it's and we can't do that in a commercial. You don't have the time to do it Yeah, um, but we have the time in audiobooks.
So take that time
commercials are like high drama in a way where it's just like a and that sounds silly because they're not but the what i'm trying to articulate is that You have a character, something happens to them really quickly, and it's resolved really fast. You know, they go through this huge arc, or they're on the other side of the arc, in storytelling.
Like, they're not they are going through this whole experience very hard, very fast, in 30 seconds. In a book, you are taking all of the time to set it up, to experience it, to walk somebody through something, especially in nonfiction or even in fiction. You are really painting a picture that they get to be immersed in, whereas in 30 seconds you have
to tell a whole story.
And you know, in a 30 second commercial, it's about the destination. What are we doing? Where are we going? Let's get there. Yes, very much. In a book, it's about the journey. Very much. Oh, hey, look at that. Oh, wow. All about the journey, not the destination. Great. Great articulation. Yeah, because if all that matters is the ending of a book, then just read the end.
Read the beginning, read the end. What do we need the middle for? No, the middle is where The experience. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. You know, it's got to be the going, not the getting there that's good. Yeah. It's got to be the going, not the getting there. I think that's England, Dan.
I don't know. I don't know. Song called Greyhound. No, no, it's Harry Chapin. Take the Greyhound. It's a dog. Okay. Maybe it's not, I don't know. It's, it's called a song's called Greyhound. It's an old song. I think it's my Harry Chapin . He cats the Cat
Cats and The Cradle Guy. Oh, the Cats and the Cradle. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I know that. I know that one. I didn't know the other song, but I just wanted you to keep singing though. This is nice, a nice way to end the show again. Oh, you know what, I'm, I'm wrong. Brings
just back to the singing thing. I'm wrong. It's not Take, the Greyhound is by bread. Like bread and butter?
No, like, well, the name of the... It's a... I think it's by... Is it by Bread? Take the Greyhound Song. Let's try that. God, the internet's amazing. Song. Let's see. I think we should wrap this... Oh, it is by Harry Chapin! I was right! It is by Harry Chapin! When you're, uh... Let's... It is by Harry It's
great. Yeah, right? I feel good. The new voice coaches. Oh, yeah. I wish I had a tambourine in here.
This is good. This is the experience that you need to create with an audio bug.
Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna speed ahead.
Come on, Harry. Harry. Here we go.
Boom! Did it. Got to be the going, not the getting. That's good. Okay. Well, I'm glad we took all that time. That was amazing. Just to reiterate the quote that I was going off
of. Next time on Voice Coaches Radio, more folk music for anyone who's interested in it. That's all we're going to do. And the cats,
and the cradle, and the
spoon,
little...
That song is so depressing. It's a good song, though. It is, but it's super depressing, especially as a dad. Like, super, super depressing. Oh, wow. Um, but anywho. Uh... We got anything else to add, any more songs you want to play? I'll come up with a
playlist for
next time, but I think I'm good. That's a good idea.
So, I hope you all enjoyed, uh, this rendition of Voice Coaches Radio. Um, no, this was, I think, you know, I think this is, uh, this is good stuff because we always, you know, people come in and are interested in audiobooks because they're, they, We love audiobooks. They're, they're, you know, it's uh, you and I were talking before the show about how, yeah, about how books and how we both love to read and how, uh, basically in high school we did not at all love to read because they forced us to read things we didn't want to.
And when we got through them and we're like, yeah, I don't want to read this anymore. It's not like you could put it down. You had to keep reading it. And so I fell out of love with books. Um, and it took me a long time to get back into them. Audiobooks, I think are a great way to, you know, to, to, to stay in books because we're all busy.
We all have life. We all have things we want to do. And, uh, you know, it gives us that opportunity and we have that opportunity to, to continue to instill that love in people. And that is a responsibility that we should take very
seriously. Absolutely. We could carry on that experience and give that experience to others and help.
I mean, what you're doing as a voice actor is you're taking words on the page and bringing them to life to create an audible experience. And that is an emotional experience for your listener. Like that is, it's a big thing. It really like. I think of your favorite audio book or your audio experience or I like I listen to a ton of podcasts and I have so many great like thought like memories of just like listening to the shows or like feeling like I learned something.
It's an emotional experience. You actually learn something. It's so remember that what you're doing is valuable and we're carrying it forward and carrying it on.
Uh, yeah. I like it. I like it. All right. Well, uh, I think that just about does it for us today. Yes, it does. Anything else to add? No, we can talk more about audiobooks
in the future.
Oh, we will. I think there's a lot more to
say. Yeah, and, and, you know, we kind of went over how things have been going for me. As I start to get into more of the meat of the book, I'll definitely talk more about that. But you know what? I also want to hear your experiences, because yours was a little bit different.
Oh, very much, yeah. It's, it's, It was
fiction. You're doing non fiction. I did a fiction
book. Yeah, it was very different. Exactly. And so, and, and also the way you, you, um, The way you released it was different. You released it almost as a serial. Yes, yeah, which was super helpful, actually. Yeah, and so you kind of, you know, it broke the book down.
So I'm interested in how that changes how you approach things and how you do it, if it does at all. So that's definitely something we'll get into. And again, as we talked about previously, in previous weeks, these are both ways to get into audiobooks. that are, uh, outside the box a little bit, and that's a lot of times what you have to do.
Yeah. Does it lead to more work on your part? Oh, yeah, it does. Um, but that's okay. All right. That's okay because you're going to be better forward at the end. Building momentum. Absolutely. You're building momentum. And the more you can do, the more you can do. That's what I always say. The more you can do, the more you can do.
So you're going to be a more valuable member, a more valuable candidate for these things when you have that experience going in. You go into a studio with a producer and you've already self produced audiobooks. Oh yeah, you'll be so You're gonna make their life easy too and they're gonna love working with you.
It's great. So, you know, these are all all good things to to certainly have and we will keep you updated on that and Sam We'll talk more about about your experience as well because i'd love to hear more about that Uh, but uh, but that's gonna be it for today. Thanks so much for tuning in and uh, And uh and listening to us ramble on for for some time about this and that and the other uh, but uh Yeah, if you have any questions, comments, concerns, uh, any topics you want us to cover, sam at voicecoaches.
com is the best way to get in touch with Sam and myself. Sam at voicecoaches. com, uh, and, uh, we'd be certainly happy to talk about it because it's not just our show, Sam. It's your show as well. Oh, I love it. There it is. So, uh, for Sam, I'm Josh. Until next time, so long everybody. Visit voicecoaches. com for more voiceover news and information.
And welcome to this week's edition of Voice Coaches Radio. I am Josh, he is Sam, we are DE lighted to have you joining us. Sam, how we doing?
Great, and that was the truncated song that you just did there, Josh.
Well, I, I, I started to do, I wasn't planning on singing the song, and then, uh, and then it started happening, and I was like, I don't know.
But the song is... So you Josh. Thank you. Thank you, thank you. The song is You One of these days I'll just start breaking out into song. We should have, you know what we should have, we should have a, uh, a, a voice coach's radio sing-along song.
Oh, this is good. That's great. Old bouncing ball. Yeah. Right along with us.
Yeah. We'll, we'll transcribe every word that we say and then people can see a little video.
Voice coaches radio karaoke.
Yeah, that'd be awesome. Voice coaches. Radio karaoke karaoke edition.
You know what karaoke means? No, I have no idea. You know what karaoke means? No. Oh, it means. It's, uh, I believe it's Japanese and it means, uh, empty orchestra.
Oh, wow.
Whoa, how deep is that? Empty orchestra.
Wow, and you are filling in the orchestra.
Yes, right, right. Interesting note also, astronaut. Yeah. Do you know what astronaut means?
No.
Again, I'm, I'm in the dark here. Astra is, or Asan Astral is Stars. Oh, sure. And, uh, the, not the, um, not stars.
What God. The, uh, the, the basis of that, uh, is, um, uh, sailor.
So they are stars. It's Nau, sailors. Oh, Nole, I see. Yes. Star sailors. And that's how I'm gonna refer to astronauts from now on. Oh, uh, Neil Armstrong, yeah, I remember him, he was that famous star sailor. He was such a
great star sailor.
Mmm, star sailor. Anywho, words are fun. I
love it, that's awesome. Words are very fun.
And speaking of words, we're gonna talk a lot about words today,
Josh. We are, we are. And not about the fact that I read a book about the dictionary. But we
could. We could. We could. We could very well. Did you read that book? Did you read that book? This is the Professor and the Madman? Yeah. No, I've never read it.
It's on
my to read list. It's super interesting. It's about the, uh, the writing of the Oxford English Dictionary, which sounds amazing to begin with. Riveting. Riveting. And, uh, you know it took like 70 years to write that thing? I don't
doubt it. Have you ever seen one? Like, especially the OED? Like the... Oh, man.
Yeah, it's, uh, yeah. And, and, and I can't even imagine having to, like, come up with all these. And so not only did they have to come up with them, they had to come up with examples for all of them, all and, and multiple examples for every different type of usage for a word. So you look at most, some words, you're like, okay, well, that's, that's not too, too bad.
But like, there are words that have like 15 different, you know, uses and you have to find multiple examples in literature, in classic literature. of each. And, uh, it took a, it took a lot of work. And the basis of the book is that they asked for help from people, uh, in the area, uh, to, you know, send in examples to send in, you know, the, the, the literature examples of usage.
And, and there was a guy who sent in a ton. I mean, it was a massive contributor. Um, and, uh, he was an American who was living in England, uh, and was living in an insane asylum. Um, Where, uh, he was put after he murdered a guy. Oh, wow. And, uh, the story behind that, as well as the, uh, the ensuing story about, uh, him and the main editor for the, uh, the original Oxford English Dictionary is surprisingly fascinating.
Hmm. That sounds interesting. They made a movie, they made a movie out of it with Mel Gibson, so I gotta be honest, I haven't seen it. Mellie Gibson? Mellie Gibson, that he is my
what?
Um, so yeah, so that's, uh,
anywho. Oh, that's amazing. I used to have to, I used the OED in college a bit and I enjoyed it actually.
It's super interesting to like look at the, a word and not only do you get the definition, you get different varying definitions. You get how like the evolution of the word, how it was used at different times throughout. Yeah, this is, I think it's really fascinating. So I agree. But speaking of books, let's talk about.
Audio books today because you and I both now have some experience on the audio book front and a lot of people are curious about audio books. A lot of people come to our program
interested in the audio book world, understandably,
understandably, absolutely. So let's dive into this. Josh, you are in the throes of making an audio book.
I'm right now. I'd say it's the infancy is, uh, is where I am. Into the fray of audiobooks. So far I'm pretty sure I've done the intro, and that's about it. That's it? I thought you did a couple chapters. No, I have not, uh, I intended to. I have not. I've done the introduction, uh, and the foreword. I've done the foreword.
Okay, so a couple, a couple segments. Yeah. And, uh, but I haven't actually gotten to the, to the meat and potatoes of the, uh, of the book just yet. How has it
been for you? What is your experience doing? The forward and then everything that you've done so far. It's
uh, it's different. It's different. It's funny, you know, we'll get people to come in.
They're like, yeah, I want to do audiobooks. I love to read. I'm like, awesome. That's not what audiobooks are. That's that's you're reading. I mean, obviously you're reading. Sure, but it's it's not normal reading. It is exhausting. Yeah, it's exhausting because you have to. It's be hyper aware of everything and and and so what I'm doing and I know Sam what you did also is we're also kind of Producing it at the same time.
Yes And so, you know your your mind is in you know Five or six different places at once trying to make sure that a you're saying things correctly Be that you're you know, your pacing is good and your inflection is good. And you know, there's so many things things you're trying to work on at once that sometimes you forget what the actual point is.
You have to kind of step back from it. And, uh, it, it's, uh, it's challenging. It is absolutely challenging. And the book I'm reading is not exactly a, uh, uh, you know, like a very serious heavy book by any stretch of the imagination, which I guess makes it a little bit easier. But it's, uh, it's, it's very challenging.
Not that I didn't think it would be, but it's, it definitely is. It's not the Professor and the Madman? It is, it is not. It is not. There are no, uh, No, no murder, murders. Mystery intrigue. No, it's, uh, sabotage. It's saboteurs. It's an eating manual. . Hey, still, it's, it's about, it's about, it's an eating plan for, for, you know, a healthy weight and lifestyle, which by the way, I, I use.
A book that you
actually would use in real life. I currently do. I own the book before I ever, uh, I've owned the book for years and, uh, and, and do currently use that plan, which I think it's also making this a little bit more helpful because I'm very familiar with the, um, you know, with what goes on there.
Now, what's interesting about it is that it varies chapter to chapter. So one chapter is on a topic about it. You know, on, um, metabolism or on, you know, uh, macronutrients. And then, and then, you know, the following chapter is a testimonial. And then it's another, you know, meat and potatoes chapter. No pun intended.
And then the next one is, you know, another, thank you. I'll be here all week. And the next one is another testimonial. And the testimonials are interesting because it's men, it's women, it's young, it's old. Uh, and I, I. Trying to figure out how I best want to do that. Oh, that's cool Do I just do it myself? Do I just do my voice?
Do I try to change the voice a little bit? Do I does it vary? I think it does naturally, you know, if if Depending on who uh who the person is who's doing the talking but I don't know and I and I haven't really Gotten down to recording those just yet, but that's going to be an issue. I'm not really sure how I'm going to approach that.
Uh, what do you, what are you thinking? You don't have, you don't have any
thoughts on it right now. My thoughts on it right now, or is this going to, it's going to mainly be my voice, but I think invariably the, the person, so say it's a, it's a young woman, I think, you know, the way I inflect and the way I approach the piece will be a little bit different overall.
Um. I think if you were to just listen to it in a vacuum, it wouldn't sound very much different from me, but listening to it right after you just listen to a regular chapter, or listening to it right next to another testimonial of, say, like, an older gentleman, I think you'll be able to tell slight differences.
I think, and I think that's what I want. I want subtle, subtle differences. But again, in a vacuum, I don't want it to sound like I'm doing a voice or a character, because I don't think that would fit. That's interesting.
I, I find when I, when I'm working on audiobooks, or in my experience even producing audiobooks, or producing for other people, what, the way I look at audiobooks is like a sliding scale.
And on that sliding scale are a number of characters. So, What's fun about audiobooks is that you are not just the narrator. You're not just one voice. Like, if you're doing a commercial spot, or if you're doing, uh, a training module where you are the same voice the whole time, it's like, hey, welcome to this place.
Let me tell you about X, Y, and Z. You are the one character the whole time. Audiobooks have this varying degree. You have multiple characters. It's almost as if, especially if you're doing fiction, but in your case, this is interesting. This applies to nonfiction as well. You have these other voices that are there, so you have your narrator voice, which is something akin to Josh, and then you have these testimonial voices, these other characters coming in.
What I, the way I like to think of audiobooks, to make it a little easier, it's a sliding scale, and all of the characters are on the scale, and you're sliding in and out of narration and into the character, so you always have one foot. In the narrative world, and this also helps too when you're in narration, especially this is a little bit more fiction oriented, but I think it does apply to what you're doing, because when you're, what, what is good storytelling, good storytelling, even if you're talking in the third person, if I was telling you a story, I would still put myself in the scenes, like, so there I was, Josh, I'm at the bus stop, and Mike, I'm waiting, I'm waiting hours for this bus, and while I'm saying this, what colors the words, what does the work, isn't, isn't me talking in the third person, it's me as If I'm living the moment, even if I'm talking the third person, does
that make sense?
It does. It does. And because I think that The listener is kind of living vicariously through you. And, and they want to have those experiences that you are describing. And also, when you put yourself in that situation, you are now an expert in that situation. And so you are the only person who really should be telling the listener this story, right?
You're the expert. You were there. The authority. Yeah. I was waiting by the bus stop. Well, what was it like? Well, I can tell you because I was there as opposed to... Yes. Oh, I love that. Yeah, as opposed to, you know, like, well, he was standing there. And so, well, why am I not... Listening to him. Why, you know, if he was there, he knows what happened.
You're just kind of passing along the information, playing a big game of telephone. I want to hear it from the source. Well, now you are. Because I
am the source. Oh, that's great. Again, we're superheroes again. Like, you are solving, it's, you can apply the same frame again. You are doing something, you're telling the story for an explicit reason, and that reason is that you know something.
It's simple quite simply put that's a lovely idea especially for
nonfiction. Yeah, I think so because again when you're reading a nonfiction book You you're probably aren't gonna be an expert in that particular field Yeah, I certainly am NOT in in regards to this book Although I do have some background in it sure another book that I'm hopefully gonna be end up Uh, end up reading for the same author is a, about a professional weightlifter.
I do weightlifting, not, you
are a professional weightlifter. Not like that
guy does absolutely a professional weightlifter. That guy was a, you know, a world champion is John North. He was a world champion. I, uh, am weak. Um, but you know, so I, am I, am I the foremost expert in that? No, not even close, not even close, but.
In that book, you are reading in John's voice, in his voice. So that way, you are the expert, because you're reading his words as him. So that's, that's the acting portion of the, of the voice acting. I'm acting as if you're an expert. Yeah, I'm a conduit for his words. Yeah,
yeah, yeah, very much so. That's a great way of putting it.
That was deep. That was super deep. But that's the idea, too. It doesn't even have to be deep. It can be really simple. Like, you in the story, you are the, you are the voice of the story. That's the conduit. Like, that's what you're doing. You are giving voice to somebody else's story. And what's the best way to do that is to create a connection to it.
To tie yourself to the story. Draw from your own experience. Talk to somebody. Actually save, like, solve their problem. Save the day. Have a good intention. This is what we do as human beings. I love that idea of putting yourself in their shoes. But more, I guess, what I'm, what I'm interested in as well as your, how are you going to navigate this new, the, the power lifting one?
How? What's your approach? What do you think?
Ah, that's a good question. Um, you know, I'm not sure I'm gonna honestly, I was just gonna take it a chapter at a time and really kind of delve into 11 chapter at a time. Um, which I don't know. I mean, I want to get an idea of the whole macro. I, you know, the book in a macro sense, but I think the best way to approach it is to dive into a smaller world section and fully embrace that to the best of your ability and then move on to the next one.
Is that what you're doing
in the nutrition book as well? Like you're basically just diving into a section. Is that the
same? Pretty much, yeah. Pretty much. And again, I have a little bit more, uh, you know, a little bit more intel into this one. Sure. Um, and it's also not, you know, the subject matter is a lot, you know, it's a lot lighter of a, of a piece in general, but I, I, I do, I, I, I think that's, I guess that's just kind of my personality into it.
So mechanically, what are you doing when you, how many pages, let's say it's like five pages, 10 pages that you've read? Uh, yeah, something like that. So when you did those five pages, whatever, however many it was, what were you thinking the whole time? Like, how were you bringing,
how were you bringing five...
Don't mess this up, Ugh, don't, ugh, Josh! Come on, buddy, don't mess it
up! I know, I know, that's what I'm thinking all the
time.
But this is great! I mean, uh, in life, right? In everything that you
do, yeah. You know, you, you know, it's um, uh, the things I'm, I'm really trying to pay attention to. Um, slowing down.
Okay, good, good. Having a conversational tone because it's a very conversation the the so the guy who the book is in the voice of is a very Kind of laid back low key guy and it's written in his voice like me. Yeah So yes, yes, exactly exactly carry on and and so, you know I I'm trying to it's written in a conversational way with asides and snarky comments and sarcasm which fits me And so I'm trying to, to, to find that to not, um, you know, be too, uh, you know, to not, to not sell it so much.
And it's funny because one of the things I was told when I first sent them a, a, a, you know, a, a passage from it that I had done, they were like, it kind of sounds like you're, you're doing a commercial. Mm. Interesting. In one respect, I was like, yeah, I can back off that a little bit on another respect. I basically said, look, this is the beginning of the book.
You're introducing an idea and you're trying to tell people why it's the best thing and they should do it, which hello, I don't care if it's in a book. It's still a commercial. You're still selling something. But I get where they were coming from. So I'm trying to keep that in mind as well. Obviously, I'm trying to make sure I don't mess up the words.
You know what else I'm doing is I'm really focusing on the phrases. The phrasing, getting that phrasing correct. And a lot of times I'll go through a line and be like, that's not how we'd say that. How we do that. And I'll, I'll actually read through it and make notes like, all right, I want to pause here.
Okay. I want a little more of a, I'll add an ellipses there to make sure that I add a little, a little drama to it. So trying to Try but basically what I'm doing is I'm reading it out loud to myself and taking notes on it as I read it Then I'm going in the booth with those notes and trying to enact that.
Hmm Um, and and then you know trying not to get overwhelmed by all the different things trying to just when I'm in there in the booth slowing down being conversational watching that phrasing and Then listening to it afterwards. How do you make
those decisions? the phrasing
decisions Honestly I, I read it and, uh, I use my ear, yeah, I use my ear and my, and, and feel, and, um, Is it exactly how he would speak?
I don't know. I've never met him. Um, well, it doesn't, that doesn't matter
really. It matters how you speak.
Exactly. That's that's interesting. So, so I look at it and I read it out loud a few times and, and figure out the way that I would do it. And that's, that's what I do. And if, and, and when I finish a chapter or whatnot, I'm gonna send it to them for review.
And if he listens to it and is like, that's not how I want it, then okay, then I'll, then I'll change it. But for now, at least I'm taking, you know, Personal responsibility for it and using, uh, using my own taste, my own ear and my own feel. Uh, and, and you talk about it all the time. Developing that ear.
Knowing what sounds, what sounds good. And, you know, I've done this for a while. I, I think I have a decent idea of, of what sounds good. I know what sounds good to me. Yep. And, and that's pretty much what I go with. And if it doesn't sound good to them, okay, well then, then I'll readjust. But for now, at least, uh, I'm gonna do it the way I think it should be done.
And think about
all the pieces that you've produced yourself and how you know how to phrase it just with your ear alone. Just even as you hear somebody doing it, you're like, no, no, no, the phrasing needs to be more like this. Because what you're doing is you're creating the experience, again, for the listener.
You, as a listener... Are in tune with how you want to hear the story. That's what you're doing as a producer. You You're like the audience you're sitting in for the audience and in a way you're you're you're kind of like a Catching the words and if it hits you the right way, you're like yes And if it's not hitting you quite right you can kind of see what feeling you want and that's missing.
You're like, no, no, no, no. We need to add a little bit more of this to create that
feeling. You're the voice of the audience. And, and, and look, it's making assumptions that the audience is going to like the same things that you do, which maybe they will, maybe they won't, but that's, it's kind of what other choice do you have?
And a lot of times you're right. It's I'll do it and be like, no, that didn't, that didn't sound right. Let me try it this way. No, that really didn't sound right. Oh, that's, that was the way I want it. How did I get to there? I tried different things and how do you know which one's the right one? You just.
You're like, okay, that's it. It's a, it's a thing that you hear it. You know, it, it's just kind of a, you're like, yep, that was, that was definitely the one. Now, who knows? Maybe, uh, another producer listens to it and you're like, well, maybe you're listening to it. And you're like, you know what? I would change it a little bit.
And I hear the way you would do it. I'm like, Oh, actually, that might be a little bit better. I'm not saying my way is perfect. It's definitely not. But it's the way that, that I know that I personally would do it and that's what I'm going to present because, you know, this audio book, though it's not my writing and it's not my, you know, interpretation.
It's or it is my interpretation. It's my voice. It's your translation. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. It's my translation of what it is and it's my Personal translation of what it
is and that's what it needs to be too. And that's what's so interesting about this because like yes It's not your book, but you are the one bringing it to life.
And what we need to hear is your humanity We need to hear josh's story to help bring this other story to life. Like you've got to bring the two together It's not just the words on the page. It's josh bringing those words
to life That's that's a good point and I think of like levar burton when he does when he's reading rainbow or levar burton reads He reads in a very Particular way.
He interprets pieces in a very particular way. Some people don't like it. Yeah, I personally do and I think it's a little nostalgia, too But yeah, of course, but when you hear him read it, you know, not only is that a story and yeah The story was good. But the way he did it is very him. It's unique to and that yeah Part of the reason why I mean, the, some of the short stories he reads, I could care less about, but I want to hear him read it.
And I'm not saying people are going to, you know, buy this book to hear me read it. Uh, they could,
some people do that though. I, my folks are, my folks are huge audio book, uh, people and they, they have audio book, uh, authors that they really like, um, uh, voice actors that they really like. It's people do this.
Like this is not unheard of. So who knows, maybe in time. We'll all be listening to Josh in his audiobooks. Oh
man. This is great. I apologize in advance for
that. I want to just touch on the ellipses. I think that is the most important piece of punctuation a voice actor can use. Ira Glass does this thing.
I've heard about his scripts when he's writing. And of course, he is a writer and he's an audio producer. Ira Glass, for those who don't know, producer of This American Life. He doesn't use commas. He doesn't use periods. He uses ellipses. So, he writes, uh, conventionally, he writes normally, but what he's really trying to do, and the thing is, when you listen to him on his radio show, it sounds like he's talking.
All of that is scripted. He is scripting, unless he's doing an interview, all of the, uh, the narration is scripted, but it sounds so conversational because he uses ellipses in between. So literally for him, it's just phrase, to phrase, to phrase, to phrase. And as an, uh, as an audiobook actor, I think this is really important.
It's pivotal. This way you can just work on one phrase at a time. It's like you taking one section at a time, but we can make it even smaller. Take a phrase, imagine that where that comma is, there's ellipses, and you're just pausing a little bit as
if you're looking for the next thing to say. And that's, that's a good point because, you know, when you see the ellipses, some of the first things you think to do is, okay, it's gonna be a, you know, a longer pause.
It doesn't have to be. Yeah, exactly. It leaves it up to your interpretation. Yes. It means there's a pause there, and you can now decide how long that, that pause is. Right. You know, is it a, is it a long... heavy pregnant pause. Maybe. Is it a quick little beat that we move to the next thought and we keep rolling?
Maybe. But that allows you to to kind of make that call. It allows you to to figure out what it should be and what would work
best for it. And the trouble and the reason I'm bringing this up too, I've, uh, for our students who have come through the program, I see it all the time. People love to blow through commas.
They love to blow through periods. They get worried about the time. They become conscious of it and they just start speeding through this other punctuation. If you take punctuation Always like an ellipses. Yeah. Then you can start feeling it out and be like, Oh no, this particular phrase or in between these two phrases doesn't need to be long, but at this moment I can take a lot more time because it's the end of a thought or it's the, or it's the suspension.
Like, I love that when you're in the middle of the line and I'm sure you've had this experience when you're reading something and you all of a sudden you realize that by pausing right before the last phrase will give a little bit of dramatic suspension and effect because that last phrase is super.
Important and you know what I I dealt with a uh, you know, I was working with a student I don't know a few weeks ago. It doesn't matter how long ago it was but uh, they were having trouble with speed They were reading too fast as many of us myself included struggle with and can't relate and And uh, you know, he was having trouble slowing down the words.
Um, but I was like, okay, don't worry about the words Lengthen your pauses. Mm-hmm. Lengthen the pauses between that, between sentences. I love. Yes. And were his words still quicker than I'd like? Yes, they were. Yes. Love it. But did it make the whole piece a lot easier to listen to? Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. 'cause it allows the listener to process what just happened.
Yes. Even though they made trailing behind a little bit at the time, it gives them a moment to process it. Okay, let's move on to the next one. This is where you being
a producer to is absolutely helping you as an audio, as a voice actor in an audio book. You know what I mean? Because like this is, again, it goes back to that image that I love to use of storytelling story, uh, uh, voice actor, voice teller.
You know what I mean? Like what you were suggesting is that the voice actor be a little bit more conscious of the audience in between sentences. Like you can talk fast. There is nothing wrong with picking up the pace. In fact, that's super conversational, which is why. I really like it and I really lean on it because also it's very natural to me as well to talk very quickly.
But if you take a pause in between, in between a phrase, all of a sudden what came before and after has more weight. Yeah. Love it. I love that idea, Josh. That's
invaluable. Yeah, and it does, and the listener doesn't, never gets lost. Yeah, totally. Never gets lost. You're helping them navigate it. Yeah, they may feel behind for a second.
Yes. But then, okay. Alright, yeah, I'm ready to go. Everything now, now I'm
with you. You're carrying them with you. It's almost as if they're like right behind you and you're making sure that they're catching up before you move on.
It's great. I love that. Yeah, and it absolutely worked for him. And, uh, and, you know, again, I'm with you.
I'm a, I talk fast. Yeah. I mean, going back to my broadcasting hockey where I had to talk fast. Oh, that's great. I'm a fast talker. Yes. And, and that's, it's okay. to an extent. Yes. Um, and there are certain times where certainly I need to, uh, slow down. And I think especially reading in nonfiction. Um, it's something I need to be a little bit more cognizant of.
But adding those pauses in as well will give even more impression that you're being slower, even if you're having trouble actually slowing down the words. Because sometimes you get to a point where you slow down the words enough. You're like, this is uncomfortable. It may not sound uncomfortable to the listener, but to the to the reader, it's like this.
brutal. And so it's, it's troublesome. So, okay, maybe you're going a little faster than I might like, but you're not going too fast because you are allowing the piece to breathe and allowing the listener to catch up. I
love it. I love that. That's a great, that's a great strategy. And I think anyone listening can employ that anytime you're reading.
Think of punctuation as Uh, and now I'm blanking on the word. Parentheses? What am I? Ellipses. Thank you. I was like, yeah, think of it. You think of punctuation as carrots, right? Vegetables. This is good advice. You heard it here on Voice Coaches Radio. Yeah, I totally had a brain fart there for a moment. I'm like, wait, what is that called?
Ellipses.
Sorry, we'll edit that out later. Thank you so
much. I'm so glad we have the power to edit that we never employ while we're
doing this show. We're real, man. We're real. It's raw. Yeah, the raw. It's raw.
Too real to handle. That's right. Or maybe just too legit to quit. Maybe just real and not too real.
Maybe it's just real. This is great. I can't wait to hear more about it as you go forward. And I think we should keep this conversation about audiobooks alive because they are beasts. That's something that people don't talk about. It's a marathon. You really are running. You're doing voice acting for a long time and you have to sustain that same energy on every line.
How do you do that? Me? I always go back. I love this idea of the phrases like just focus on the phrase in front of you. Focus on that phrase, focus on the next phrase. Then we could talk narration. We can talk character and it's again, it's sliding in and out. It's this, it's a little bit more fluid. It's not as, you don't have to play characters as heavy because you are still telling a story.
And that's implied and people know that. And if you try to get too character y, all of a sudden it sounds like a cartoon and that actually turns people off. And then, you know. Yeah.
You look at a commercial, and I like to think of commercials as, you know, 30 second audio books. That's a great way, yeah. You know, if, if, if.
You know, there's a character, or if the emotion goes up, you gotta do it, you gotta do it now, and you gotta do it hard. Because you have to make that delineation right then and there. Whereas with an audiobook, you have time to slowly build things up, to slowly work on that drama, to really take your time and take the listener along with you.
And so you, it is, there's a lot more subtlety involved in that. Because you, you, Have the ability to do that. You have the opportunity to do that. And and it's I I think it's a much more effective way to do it Obviously it's and we can't do that in a commercial. You don't have the time to do it Yeah, um, but we have the time in audiobooks.
So take that time
commercials are like high drama in a way where it's just like a and that sounds silly because they're not but the what i'm trying to articulate is that You have a character, something happens to them really quickly, and it's resolved really fast. You know, they go through this huge arc, or they're on the other side of the arc, in storytelling.
Like, they're not they are going through this whole experience very hard, very fast, in 30 seconds. In a book, you are taking all of the time to set it up, to experience it, to walk somebody through something, especially in nonfiction or even in fiction. You are really painting a picture that they get to be immersed in, whereas in 30 seconds you have
to tell a whole story.
And you know, in a 30 second commercial, it's about the destination. What are we doing? Where are we going? Let's get there. Yes, very much. In a book, it's about the journey. Very much. Oh, hey, look at that. Oh, wow. All about the journey, not the destination. Great. Great articulation. Yeah, because if all that matters is the ending of a book, then just read the end.
Read the beginning, read the end. What do we need the middle for? No, the middle is where The experience. Yeah, that's exactly what it is. That's exactly what it is. You know, it's got to be the going, not the getting there that's good. Yeah. It's got to be the going, not the getting there. I think that's England, Dan.
I don't know. I don't know. Song called Greyhound. No, no, it's Harry Chapin. Take the Greyhound. It's a dog. Okay. Maybe it's not, I don't know. It's, it's called a song's called Greyhound. It's an old song. I think it's my Harry Chapin . He cats the Cat
Cats and The Cradle Guy. Oh, the Cats and the Cradle. Yeah.
Yeah, yeah. I know that. I know that one. I didn't know the other song, but I just wanted you to keep singing though. This is nice, a nice way to end the show again. Oh, you know what, I'm, I'm wrong. Brings
just back to the singing thing. I'm wrong. It's not Take, the Greyhound is by bread. Like bread and butter?
No, like, well, the name of the... It's a... I think it's by... Is it by Bread? Take the Greyhound Song. Let's try that. God, the internet's amazing. Song. Let's see. I think we should wrap this... Oh, it is by Harry Chapin! I was right! It is by Harry Chapin! When you're, uh... Let's... It is by Harry It's
great. Yeah, right? I feel good. The new voice coaches. Oh, yeah. I wish I had a tambourine in here.
This is good. This is the experience that you need to create with an audio bug.
Okay, we're gonna, we're gonna speed ahead.
Come on, Harry. Harry. Here we go.
Boom! Did it. Got to be the going, not the getting. That's good. Okay. Well, I'm glad we took all that time. That was amazing. Just to reiterate the quote that I was going off
of. Next time on Voice Coaches Radio, more folk music for anyone who's interested in it. That's all we're going to do. And the cats,
and the cradle, and the
spoon,
little...
That song is so depressing. It's a good song, though. It is, but it's super depressing, especially as a dad. Like, super, super depressing. Oh, wow. Um, but anywho. Uh... We got anything else to add, any more songs you want to play? I'll come up with a
playlist for
next time, but I think I'm good. That's a good idea.
So, I hope you all enjoyed, uh, this rendition of Voice Coaches Radio. Um, no, this was, I think, you know, I think this is, uh, this is good stuff because we always, you know, people come in and are interested in audiobooks because they're, they, We love audiobooks. They're, they're, you know, it's uh, you and I were talking before the show about how, yeah, about how books and how we both love to read and how, uh, basically in high school we did not at all love to read because they forced us to read things we didn't want to.
And when we got through them and we're like, yeah, I don't want to read this anymore. It's not like you could put it down. You had to keep reading it. And so I fell out of love with books. Um, and it took me a long time to get back into them. Audiobooks, I think are a great way to, you know, to, to, to stay in books because we're all busy.
We all have life. We all have things we want to do. And, uh, you know, it gives us that opportunity and we have that opportunity to, to continue to instill that love in people. And that is a responsibility that we should take very
seriously. Absolutely. We could carry on that experience and give that experience to others and help.
I mean, what you're doing as a voice actor is you're taking words on the page and bringing them to life to create an audible experience. And that is an emotional experience for your listener. Like that is, it's a big thing. It really like. I think of your favorite audio book or your audio experience or I like I listen to a ton of podcasts and I have so many great like thought like memories of just like listening to the shows or like feeling like I learned something.
It's an emotional experience. You actually learn something. It's so remember that what you're doing is valuable and we're carrying it forward and carrying it on.
Uh, yeah. I like it. I like it. All right. Well, uh, I think that just about does it for us today. Yes, it does. Anything else to add? No, we can talk more about audiobooks
in the future.
Oh, we will. I think there's a lot more to
say. Yeah, and, and, you know, we kind of went over how things have been going for me. As I start to get into more of the meat of the book, I'll definitely talk more about that. But you know what? I also want to hear your experiences, because yours was a little bit different.
Oh, very much, yeah. It's, it's, It was
fiction. You're doing non fiction. I did a fiction
book. Yeah, it was very different. Exactly. And so, and, and also the way you, you, um, The way you released it was different. You released it almost as a serial. Yes, yeah, which was super helpful, actually. Yeah, and so you kind of, you know, it broke the book down.
So I'm interested in how that changes how you approach things and how you do it, if it does at all. So that's definitely something we'll get into. And again, as we talked about previously, in previous weeks, these are both ways to get into audiobooks. that are, uh, outside the box a little bit, and that's a lot of times what you have to do.
Yeah. Does it lead to more work on your part? Oh, yeah, it does. Um, but that's okay. All right. That's okay because you're going to be better forward at the end. Building momentum. Absolutely. You're building momentum. And the more you can do, the more you can do. That's what I always say. The more you can do, the more you can do.
So you're going to be a more valuable member, a more valuable candidate for these things when you have that experience going in. You go into a studio with a producer and you've already self produced audiobooks. Oh yeah, you'll be so You're gonna make their life easy too and they're gonna love working with you.
It's great. So, you know, these are all all good things to to certainly have and we will keep you updated on that and Sam We'll talk more about about your experience as well because i'd love to hear more about that Uh, but uh, but that's gonna be it for today. Thanks so much for tuning in and uh, And uh and listening to us ramble on for for some time about this and that and the other uh, but uh Yeah, if you have any questions, comments, concerns, uh, any topics you want us to cover, sam at voicecoaches.
com is the best way to get in touch with Sam and myself. Sam at voicecoaches. com, uh, and, uh, we'd be certainly happy to talk about it because it's not just our show, Sam. It's your show as well. Oh, I love it. There it is. So, uh, for Sam, I'm Josh. Until next time, so long everybody. Visit voicecoaches. com for more voiceover news and information.
Voice Coaches team members Josh and Sam discuss some of the difficulties and benefits to making audiobooks.
