VC Radio
Voice Coaches Radio Episode 716 “Levels of Expression”
John: [00:00:00] All right. Hello my friends. I am John.
Tina: And I'm Tina.
John: And this is Voice Coaches Radio.
Tina: Wait, where, wait, where? We're never
John: gonna do it- Oh, Voice Coaches Radio ... just we're never gonna do it together. We're never gonna do it. All right. Well, you know. Uh, all right, cool. So listen, here we are. A beautiful Friday afternoon.
Mm-hmm. Well,
Tina: no.
John: They call it mid-morning. Yeah. What do they call it? Midday. I always wondered what mid-morning meant.
Tina: Mid-morn- this is, this is... No, mid-morning would probably be like 9, 10 o'clock.
John: Really?
Tina: Yeah.
John: That's not- Right ... just morning? That's
Tina: the morning. And well, mid-morning. Like
John: early morning, morning, mid-morning.
No, just
Tina: would be early, mid- Midday, middays are 10 to 2, and I'm only doing that because of radio.
John: Oh.
Tina: So I don't
John: know. Okay. Well, I don't know. Anyway, so hey, we, so we have a listener- Mm-hmm ... um, also happens to be a voiceover client of ours. Mm-hmm. Uh, Michelle M.
Tina: Okay. Yep.
John: Or Michelle [00:01:00] L.
Tina: Yep.
John: We-
Tina: We're not sure.
John: We'll say Michelle L. because, uh, M- Well- ... Michelle signed it as Michelle L. Michelle L., yep. But the email is Michelle-
Tina: Michelle M.
John: But anyway. All
Tina: right,
John: okay. Michelle L. Michelle knows she is right. Yeah. Um, so, oh, uh, I do have to topic button by the way. Uh, well, let me- Yeah. ... let everyone know because our, I guess our topic button in, uh- Yeah
in the podcast page doesn't work. Yeah. So please, if you've been hitting that and you think that we're getting it, we're not.
Tina: Yeah.
John: So email us as Michelle did.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Um, and, and I've, we've been getting questions. So people have been sending us questions, but nothing very new, but this is a good one.
Tina: Yep.
John: Okay.
So we decided let's make this into an episode.
Tina: Okay.
John: Uh, and I told Michelle I would. Mm-hmm. And so let's do it. So, uh, Michelle said, "I'd like to hear your opinions about overacting," in quotations, "in voiceover. I realize, uh, there are times when it's probably appropriate, such as children's books and animation, yet in other cases, such as textbooks and novels, it might be inappropriate.
For commercials, there are probably many levels between serious and overacting. Could you speak to [00:02:00] the different levels, when and why different levels may come into play? How do you know what level to do, et cetera? Also, could you address the issue of including assorted levels in a demo?" Okay. So I wouldn't, I, I, I know what Michelle is asking, and I wouldn't necessarily call- Mm-hmm
what she's asking overacting. Okay. I would call it levels of expression.
Tina: Okay.
John: Right? That's good. Because, so let's call it that. Mm-hmm. Uh, this episode could be called Levels of Expression- Right ... brought to you by Michelle L.
Tina: Okay. Yep. I'm like, "We have a sponsor now?" There we go. Oh, awesome.
John: So yeah. Um, when it comes, I, I, know, I understand the word overacting.
Mm-hmm. I think Michelle is nervous about, like, if I say, say I direct- Mm-hmm ... Michelle to do sarcasm, I don't want to be over the top. So here my advice, my advice and, and then- Yeah ... you get to give me your opinion on this. If I ask someone to be sarcastic- I want you to be what you think is over the top.
'Cause I can easily pull you [00:03:00] back. Mm-hmm. Are there levels of sarcasm? Sure.
Tina: Yes. Yeah.
John: But when it comes to voiceovers, you don't have any visuals, right? Yeah. There, there's no facial expressions, there's no body movements. Mm. There's nothing to express it visually. It's all audibly.
Tina: Yes.
John: Which means you have to be what you think is over the top.
People have to get it, right? Mm-hmm. So I, if I say, "Hey, I want you to be sarcastic," I want you to be what you think is over the top. Like, you know, um I, I mean, if I had a piece of copy, I could give you an example of it. But you know, it's, this is like, it's, it's like saying Going from, "Hey, what are you doing?"
to, "What are you doing?" Yeah. Right? I mean, you want it to be over the top. When there's a facial- Mm-hmm ... expression, you, you don't have to be quite as, right? Mm-hmm. But think about phone calls, right? When you're on the phone with someone, you always know how your friend feels. Yeah. You don't guess. Like, you say, "How are you doing today?"
And your friend goes, "Ugh, okay." Yeah. Now, if you write that down, it sounds like okay.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Right? But if you hear it over the phone, you're [00:04:00] like, "Okay, she's not okay." Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know based on the way ... That, that's the phrase, right? Mm-hmm. We've heard this our whole lives, especially when we were young. I, people don't say it as much anymore, but remember when your mom would say, "It's not what you said-
Tina: Ah, yeah
John: it's how you said it."
Tina: Yeah .
John: Right? 'Cause your mom would get mad, you, 'cause you would say, "Okay, Mom."
Tina: Yeah .
John: And then, then she would get mad at you, and you'd go- Yep ... "I just said, 'Okay, Mom.'" "No, no, no, no,
Tina: no." No, you didn't. Yeah . "That's not what you said."
John: Uh, so I would say, um, my, in my opinion, always be, start off over the top.
Uh, and then, and then we can pull you back. And I understand, though, what Michelle is asking. Yes, there are absolutely different levels- Mm-hmm ... of expression, just like there's different ways to conversationally read, right?
Tina: Yeah.
John: There's, like, there, there are things where you're gonna be friendly and informative.
Mm-hmm. That shouldn't sound like a piece that, where you're sarcastic.
Tina: No, not, right. Yeah,
John: mm-hmm. It should always be appropriate. So what, what's your opinion on that?
Tina: Well, it's almost the, the same, and that's what, when I tell people, especially in our second class when we're getting into techniques and things like that, [00:05:00] I always say, "If I'm on stage," 'cause there's a little section that we do, "body language shows exactly how I'm feeling, but you're not.
You're behind the microphone. So go ahead and go outside the box. Be cr- we'll pull you in. They will pull you in." Yeah. And that's the thing. And you can always, though, ask them. There's nothing wrong with asking them. Yeah. Say, "Okay, are you looking for ... All right, sarcasm, how much sarcasm? Do you want it to be over the top?
Do you want ... " There's nothing wrong with a-
John: Absolutely, yeah ... ask
Tina: questions, and they will-
John: Yeah, always ask
Tina: questions ... they would, they would rather you, you just, just go ahead and, yeah, ask them the question. And if not, but just go ahead. 'Cause
John: it's easier just to reel someone in than to keep pushing them back.
Tina: Yes, it is.
John: Like, 'cause I know as a producer, when I say, "Be sarcastic," and a person's- Mm-hmm ... not-
Tina: Yeah ... '
John: cause they think, like, in their minds, I know what they're doing. Mm-hmm. They're, they're thinking, "I know sarcasm, but- Yeah ... I don't want to be over the top." And when I hear someone do that, I'm getting nervous- Yeah
'cause I think, "Uh-oh, this person might not be capable of doing sarcasm." Yeah. "I'm gonna have to keep ... " And me pushing someone like this- Mm-hmm ... and going, "Oh, please, just keep going," [00:06:00] is way harder than, than me going, "Love it. Now- Yes ... let's just keep, you know what? Give me a tiny bit less." Yeah. That's much easier than pushing someone.
So my advice is- Mm-hmm ... uh, really go for it, right?
Tina: Yeah, abs- absolutely. And it, but I also say, I get where sometimes you get into that booth, say you are going into a studio, and you're, you get into a booth, you get nervous. You, you do. Yeah. That's, absolutely. But I always say, "Before you get into that booth, just think of that big, you want to be outside that creative, small little bubble here, but you want to be outside of it."
Yeah. Go in that way. Go in that way, and they will pull you in- Yeah ... if it's over the top.
John: I think what Michelle seems to be, and, and I get it, right? Mm-hmm. So I think what Michelle is kinda mentally dealing with, right- Mm-hmm ... i- is, um ... It's like when someone says, "Be expressive."
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: In Michelle's mind, maybe it's, "Oh, I, I, I, I
But not everything is ex- There's, there's shades of gray in everything- Yeah ... right? Mm-hmm. So yes, absolutely, you are [00:07:00] right. There are different, if you wanna call them, levels, right? Yeah. There's, but there's different levels of expression.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Um, and, and as far as the term overacting, I understand ... I think part of it is- Mm
as a new voice actor-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: we feel silly.
Tina: Oh, absolutely, yes. But
John: I'm telling you, it's not going to come through like you think. Mm. I tell this to people, and when they hear it back, they know.
Tina: Yeah.
John: I've had many people where I'm doing their demo-
Tina: Mm-hmm ...
John: and I say, "I'm telling you, please, just be over the top."
And then, then they do it- Mm-hmm ... and I'll play it back for them, and they go, "Oh, wow, that doesn't- Yeah ... sound anything like I thought." Yep, I get that all the time. I'm like, "Right, right. It doesn't- Yes ... sound like you think." Yeah. You think you're being, like, you know, like, ab- absurdly over the top. Mm-hmm. You think that.
Tina: Yep.
John: But believe me, when I play that back, you're not going to think that. Oh, no. And it's every time. I've never had anyone go, "Wow-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: I sound over the top." No. Yeah. Everyone goes, "Wow, it doesn't sound anything like I thought it sounded." Yeah. So my advice is be overly expressive if you ... A- and then let whatever it is.
Like, like [00:08:00] if, you know- Yeah ... I'll let, hey, I'll give you one. If I say friendly and informative, doesn't sound like a, an over the top, but- Yeah ... I really want you to be- Oh, yes ... big smile.
Tina: Big smile, yep. "Hey,
John: come on in tomorrow." I want that because I know you think you're being corny. Mm-hmm. That's the, right?
Yeah. That's when people kinda, "Oh, I'm being corny." But believe me, when I play this back- Mm-hmm ... you're not gonna, you're not gonna hear it like that. Yeah, no. You're gonna go, "Oh, wow, I'm, I'm barely friendly."
Tina: Yeah.
John: And they go, "That's right. I need more. I need more."
Tina: Yeah, sh- definitely. And I ... Though also, the other thing is, because when you were talking about Michelle, like, sometimes we are, we are af- afraid to do it.
Mm-hmm. You know, afraid to. But, or, like, "Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look silly," or, or something like that. Always remember, nobody sees you. Nobody sees you. Nobody sees you. And most of them are time, like, um, even, even when you're in the booth, you don't even see the engineer or the producer. They're in a whole nother room.
You're in that booth by yourself. Have fun with it. They want you to. And that's,
John: it- And those are the people we bring back too.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Right? I mean, when you ... Professionally, let's say. Mm-hmm. So when you hire for a professional job and you come in- L- [00:09:00] how about this? I think we've all kind of seen this. It may- maybe depends on age.
Yeah. I want you to picture, you've seen the, the videos, the video footage of Robin Williams in a vocal booth.
Tina: Oh, yes. Yep.
John: Right?
Tina: Yeah.
John: You think they didn't love working with that guy? They loved it. Yeah. They never had to say, "Hey, go f- I need you to do more."
Tina: Yeah.
John: Now keep in mind, most of what he was doing was animation.
Yes.
Tina: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
John: We, I get it. I get it. Yeah. Um, yes, it always has to be an appropriate level of expression for- Mm-hmm ... whatever you're doing. A, a appropriate tone.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Like, right? But when you come in and, and you just go for it-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: even if we th- okay, I, I always say there's no wrong or right, 'cause it's kind of just really interpretation, right?
Tina: Yeah, that's right.
John: But even if we think you're wrong, for example- Mm-hmm ... like you interpret it in a word like, that's not at all how we interpret. Yeah. But if you went for it, I'm all about it. Yeah. Like I'm like, "All right, that's not k- how I saw it. Let's switch it up a little bit." But in my mind I'm thinking, "Okay, she's gonna have no problem doing this."
Tina: Yeah.
John: No problem doing this because she just went for it. Yeah. That's the type of voice actor we like. So don't worry about that. [00:10:00] Don't, don't get caught up in, "I don't wanna overact." Overact. Overact.
Tina: That's what
John: I call it. Go outside of that box. Be overly expressive. Yes. Let us pull you back. Mm-hmm. I'm telling you, everybody.
I don't, I don't think there's a producer in this industry- Mm-hmm ... that would ever think to themselves, "Uh, that person's too expressive." Oh,
Tina: yeah. Well, I'm sorry. It
John: just doesn't happen. Yeah. It
Tina: doesn't happen. You went overboard. We
John: get it. Be too expressive. Yes. Be too expressive.
Tina: No, and yeah, d- go for it.
That's what I say. Definitely go for it. Have fun with it. Most of the time it is. You're, it's a lot of fun. Even if you're doing a corporate read, it does not matter. It's still fun. Yes. Yeah. You know? And that's the thing. But just, you can always ask them questions. They, I always say this, nicest people in this industry, uh, producers and engineers, because they know how we feel in that booth.
You feel comfortable in the booth, they're gonna get a great read from us. Ask them questions. Yeah. They don't mind at all.
John: Oh, no. Not at all. Yeah. And, and that goes for everything, even if there's a word you're not sure about.
Tina: Oh, absolutely. I always do that.
John: Yeah.
Tina: I'll butcher a word right, left and right.
Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna
John: ask them. Absolutely. So [00:11:00] yeah, d- so that, that would be, I hope... Did we cover everything she asked? I feel like there w- it was a longer question than that. Yeah. Let me look at my
Tina: phone again.
John: Yeah, well, yeah. I don't wanna, I don't wanna like not answer anything. I know.
Tina: I know. And then- I'm pretty sure we did
John: I think so too, but let me... I, I flagged. Oh, there we go. So I flagged. Okay. Uh, oh, we can also cover, you said that- Mm-hmm Um, Michelle is saying another question, and Michelle did try to send it to me. I just want Michelle to know-
Tina: Oh, okay ...
John: that, and Michelle must have figured it out. Mm-hmm. Uh, when Michelle sent the question, I didn't ignore it.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Uh, Michelle put [email protected]. Yeah. It's not what it is. Mm-mm. It's johng- G, yep ... @voicecoaches.com. I wish it was just John, like it's just Tina, but-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: it's not. So it's [email protected]. So I didn't get that question. You did. Mm-hmm, yep. Uh, so I didn't ignore it, by the way. Yeah. I, I know it was sent in March.
I didn't ignore it. I try to get back to people- Mm-hmm ... ASAP. Uh, so, um, let me think. Um, I, I think we did kind of answer [00:12:00] all this.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Mm, mm, mm. Yeah. And there, yeah, you're right. There's different levels. You have to un- understand the piece. Again, a- ask yourself who are you, who are you talking to, what are you saying?
Yes. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, you figure that out, and then- Mm-hmm ... be appropriate. Yeah. So appropriate.
Tina: Yeah.
John: And, uh, yeah. Uh, so now what was the question?
Tina: She was asking about singing- Sure ... and voice acting.
John: Yeah.
Tina: You know? To me, in my mind that I was thinking more of, like, jingles, like radio jingles- Sure
and things like that. Because you still s- hear those, absolutely hear those- Yeah.
John: I don't- ...
Tina: all, all the time.
John: Do you? Yeah. I s- well-
Tina: Well, 'cause I work in radio too. You work in radio, yeah. So I, yeah, that's all I
John: hear. Yeah. I never hear them because I don't listen to ra- I, like, uh, I don't listen to terrestrial radio much- Oh, geez.
Yeah, yeah ... anymore. Um, I don't even know the channels, to be honest. Yeah. I listen to podcasts and- Yeah ... and, uh, music on Apple Music. But a podcast I don't hear jingles, so they're still do- they're still happening. They're still, yep. So that's good.
Tina: They still do it. All right. They still do them. So
John: jingles are still happening, so there you go- Mm-hmm
as far as that goes. Um, also I will say the part of singing that really is [00:13:00] still out there- Mm-hmm ... a l- a lot of is animation.
Tina: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You
John: know, like, um, you know, you know, obviously Disney does a ton of it. Mm-hmm. You're not gonna be getting to that level right away, but-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: but there's still animation on- Mm-hmm
more of a regional level or- Yeah ... you know, a lower level that, that also has singing. It's like- Mm-hmm ... music theater almost.
Tina: Yeah. Yeah.
John: So yeah, uh, singing can actu- absolutely be an asset in this.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: So, um, yeah. I mean,
Tina: uh- And it, you know, and it all depends. Like, I've had students who have, their background is in singing, and I might even, depending on the script, say, "Let's throw it in there, just to show what you can do."
John: Yeah, let's do a quick little,
Tina: yeah. Yeah, just a quick, you know, it's just one or two lines. We've got, we've got one, um, script, and it talks about, um, uh, it w- it's actually an audiobook, you know? So it, it, uh, talks about a car and their radio and the Beatles song coming on. If I know that person can, if my student can sing, "Sing that line for me.
Go ahead." And they'll, and I'll put it in there. Yeah.
John: Put it
Tina: in there. Yeah. You know? There you go. Just to show that you can do it. It, yet will they hear that and say, "Oh, [00:14:00] let's s- ha- have you sing the whole book?" No. And
John: that'd be something different. No, not sing the
Tina: whole book, but yeah, you never know. But you never know.
John: You'd be surprised where singing goes in. I, I'll, I'll give you an example- Mm ... 'cause I knew a, I knew a guy who worked for Hasbro as a voice actor.
Tina: Okay.
John: And he had, uh, uh, by the way, here, there's another lesson to this- Mm ... which is never say you can do something you can't.
Tina: Yeah.
John: So they said they, so because he did so much voiceover work for Hasbro, they, they asked him at one point, "Hey, do you sing?"
And in his mind, he thought, "I can carry a tune." Yeah. But he, he didn't know they meant sing sing. Oh. So he, he said, "Oh, yeah, I can sing." Turns out he can't sing. Like he, he goes, "I can like carry a tune." Yeah. I didn't real- And he was telling me this. He goes, he's telling me this story. He said, "And so it turned out they really needed me to sing, like a singer."
Oh. And he goes, "They were so, eh, they were so annoyed with me 'cause I said I could sing that they, they..." He said they didn't hire him for like a month. Oh. And it was like steady work for him. He goes, "They did not hire me for a month. They were so mad that I said I could sing, but I wasn't a singer." Oh,
Tina: wow.
John: Yeah.
Tina: All right. Yeah.
John: Because it was like full singing in toys. Yeah. All right. Like it was, it was like full singing parts. So they did end up bringing him [00:15:00] back luckily. Yeah. You know, they really liked him, but I think they were teaching him a little lesson, you know? Yeah. "
Tina: Don't say you can sing
John: if you can't sing."
Don't say. So yes, they're singing in toys a- Mm-hmm ... as well. Yeah. Still, uh, to this day. So there's many things that you can sing out there. Um, so yeah, it's out there. I, you know, um, I used to sing. I used to- Yeah ... I shouldn't say I used to sing. I can still sing, but I don't, I, I, I have a kind of singing voiceover.
I used to get jingles.
Tina: Yeah. See, that's, yeah.
John: Choppa and Sons Formal Wear. I, I did that. Yeah. I did, there's a lot of s- uh, jingles, I shouldn't say a lot, but I did a f- a few jingles- Mm-hmm ... uh, back in the past, but I haven't gotten anything like that in a- Yeah ... really long time.
Tina: Well, that's it. So now I'm even, you just got me thinking about a lot of those commercials, those, um, the ones with the medical disclaimers, they're, they have all music in the background, and sometime you hear the singing too.
Do they? So yeah, so they're still out there, definitely.
John: Sure.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Yeah, no, they're there, yeah. Yeah. I just don't think they're as prevalent. They used to be so... I mean- Yeah ... everything used to have a-
Tina: Yes, everything was singing. Everything.
John: Everything.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Yeah. All right, cool. Yeah. So there we go. Michelle, thank you so- Thank you
[00:16:00] much. There we go. Yeah. See, if you can be like Michelle- ... and can ask questions that I haven't, we haven't gotten yet, I, you know, I, what I don't wanna do, listen everybody, I'm not ignoring your questions, so if you've sent me questions- Mm-hmm ... let me just say that. Go back to our question and answer 'cause we, I, I think maybe they missed that episode, and maybe they're new- Yeah
listeners, right?
Tina: Yeah. That's true. Yeah.
John: I, we, we did a whole listener questions episode. Mm-hmm. And most of the questions I'm getting right now are literally the same questions.
Tina: The same ones. Yeah, yeah. So.
John: So Michelle had a new one. Yeah. Thank you. So listen to that episode- Mm-hmm ... and then g- give us a new one.
And w- we could do, like something like this we can make into a whole episode.
Tina: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
John: Absolutely. Well, thank you very much, Michelle, and I hope you enjoy this episode. And, uh, so again, uh, John G at Voice Coaches. Mm-hmm. John G- G, put the
Tina: G
John: in there ... @voicecoaches.com.
Tina: And [email protected].
John: Thank you so much for listening, everyone. We out.
Tina: And I'm Tina.
John: And this is Voice Coaches Radio.
Tina: Wait, where, wait, where? We're never
John: gonna do it- Oh, Voice Coaches Radio ... just we're never gonna do it together. We're never gonna do it. All right. Well, you know. Uh, all right, cool. So listen, here we are. A beautiful Friday afternoon.
Mm-hmm. Well,
Tina: no.
John: They call it mid-morning. Yeah. What do they call it? Midday. I always wondered what mid-morning meant.
Tina: Mid-morn- this is, this is... No, mid-morning would probably be like 9, 10 o'clock.
John: Really?
Tina: Yeah.
John: That's not- Right ... just morning? That's
Tina: the morning. And well, mid-morning. Like
John: early morning, morning, mid-morning.
No, just
Tina: would be early, mid- Midday, middays are 10 to 2, and I'm only doing that because of radio.
John: Oh.
Tina: So I don't
John: know. Okay. Well, I don't know. Anyway, so hey, we, so we have a listener- Mm-hmm ... um, also happens to be a voiceover client of ours. Mm-hmm. Uh, Michelle M.
Tina: Okay. Yep.
John: Or Michelle [00:01:00] L.
Tina: Yep.
John: We-
Tina: We're not sure.
John: We'll say Michelle L. because, uh, M- Well- ... Michelle signed it as Michelle L. Michelle L., yep. But the email is Michelle-
Tina: Michelle M.
John: But anyway. All
Tina: right,
John: okay. Michelle L. Michelle knows she is right. Yeah. Um, so, oh, uh, I do have to topic button by the way. Uh, well, let me- Yeah. ... let everyone know because our, I guess our topic button in, uh- Yeah
in the podcast page doesn't work. Yeah. So please, if you've been hitting that and you think that we're getting it, we're not.
Tina: Yeah.
John: So email us as Michelle did.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Um, and, and I've, we've been getting questions. So people have been sending us questions, but nothing very new, but this is a good one.
Tina: Yep.
John: Okay.
So we decided let's make this into an episode.
Tina: Okay.
John: Uh, and I told Michelle I would. Mm-hmm. And so let's do it. So, uh, Michelle said, "I'd like to hear your opinions about overacting," in quotations, "in voiceover. I realize, uh, there are times when it's probably appropriate, such as children's books and animation, yet in other cases, such as textbooks and novels, it might be inappropriate.
For commercials, there are probably many levels between serious and overacting. Could you speak to [00:02:00] the different levels, when and why different levels may come into play? How do you know what level to do, et cetera? Also, could you address the issue of including assorted levels in a demo?" Okay. So I wouldn't, I, I, I know what Michelle is asking, and I wouldn't necessarily call- Mm-hmm
what she's asking overacting. Okay. I would call it levels of expression.
Tina: Okay.
John: Right? That's good. Because, so let's call it that. Mm-hmm. Uh, this episode could be called Levels of Expression- Right ... brought to you by Michelle L.
Tina: Okay. Yep. I'm like, "We have a sponsor now?" There we go. Oh, awesome.
John: So yeah. Um, when it comes, I, I, know, I understand the word overacting.
Mm-hmm. I think Michelle is nervous about, like, if I say, say I direct- Mm-hmm ... Michelle to do sarcasm, I don't want to be over the top. So here my advice, my advice and, and then- Yeah ... you get to give me your opinion on this. If I ask someone to be sarcastic- I want you to be what you think is over the top.
'Cause I can easily pull you [00:03:00] back. Mm-hmm. Are there levels of sarcasm? Sure.
Tina: Yes. Yeah.
John: But when it comes to voiceovers, you don't have any visuals, right? Yeah. There, there's no facial expressions, there's no body movements. Mm. There's nothing to express it visually. It's all audibly.
Tina: Yes.
John: Which means you have to be what you think is over the top.
People have to get it, right? Mm-hmm. So I, if I say, "Hey, I want you to be sarcastic," I want you to be what you think is over the top. Like, you know, um I, I mean, if I had a piece of copy, I could give you an example of it. But you know, it's, this is like, it's, it's like saying Going from, "Hey, what are you doing?"
to, "What are you doing?" Yeah. Right? I mean, you want it to be over the top. When there's a facial- Mm-hmm ... expression, you, you don't have to be quite as, right? Mm-hmm. But think about phone calls, right? When you're on the phone with someone, you always know how your friend feels. Yeah. You don't guess. Like, you say, "How are you doing today?"
And your friend goes, "Ugh, okay." Yeah. Now, if you write that down, it sounds like okay.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Right? But if you hear it over the phone, you're [00:04:00] like, "Okay, she's not okay." Mm-hmm. Yeah. You know based on the way ... That, that's the phrase, right? Mm-hmm. We've heard this our whole lives, especially when we were young. I, people don't say it as much anymore, but remember when your mom would say, "It's not what you said-
Tina: Ah, yeah
John: it's how you said it."
Tina: Yeah .
John: Right? 'Cause your mom would get mad, you, 'cause you would say, "Okay, Mom."
Tina: Yeah .
John: And then, then she would get mad at you, and you'd go- Yep ... "I just said, 'Okay, Mom.'" "No, no, no, no,
Tina: no." No, you didn't. Yeah . "That's not what you said."
John: Uh, so I would say, um, my, in my opinion, always be, start off over the top.
Uh, and then, and then we can pull you back. And I understand, though, what Michelle is asking. Yes, there are absolutely different levels- Mm-hmm ... of expression, just like there's different ways to conversationally read, right?
Tina: Yeah.
John: There's, like, there, there are things where you're gonna be friendly and informative.
Mm-hmm. That shouldn't sound like a piece that, where you're sarcastic.
Tina: No, not, right. Yeah,
John: mm-hmm. It should always be appropriate. So what, what's your opinion on that?
Tina: Well, it's almost the, the same, and that's what, when I tell people, especially in our second class when we're getting into techniques and things like that, [00:05:00] I always say, "If I'm on stage," 'cause there's a little section that we do, "body language shows exactly how I'm feeling, but you're not.
You're behind the microphone. So go ahead and go outside the box. Be cr- we'll pull you in. They will pull you in." Yeah. And that's the thing. And you can always, though, ask them. There's nothing wrong with asking them. Yeah. Say, "Okay, are you looking for ... All right, sarcasm, how much sarcasm? Do you want it to be over the top?
Do you want ... " There's nothing wrong with a-
John: Absolutely, yeah ... ask
Tina: questions, and they will-
John: Yeah, always ask
Tina: questions ... they would, they would rather you, you just, just go ahead and, yeah, ask them the question. And if not, but just go ahead. 'Cause
John: it's easier just to reel someone in than to keep pushing them back.
Tina: Yes, it is.
John: Like, 'cause I know as a producer, when I say, "Be sarcastic," and a person's- Mm-hmm ... not-
Tina: Yeah ... '
John: cause they think, like, in their minds, I know what they're doing. Mm-hmm. They're, they're thinking, "I know sarcasm, but- Yeah ... I don't want to be over the top." And when I hear someone do that, I'm getting nervous- Yeah
'cause I think, "Uh-oh, this person might not be capable of doing sarcasm." Yeah. "I'm gonna have to keep ... " And me pushing someone like this- Mm-hmm ... and going, "Oh, please, just keep going," [00:06:00] is way harder than, than me going, "Love it. Now- Yes ... let's just keep, you know what? Give me a tiny bit less." Yeah. That's much easier than pushing someone.
So my advice is- Mm-hmm ... uh, really go for it, right?
Tina: Yeah, abs- absolutely. And it, but I also say, I get where sometimes you get into that booth, say you are going into a studio, and you're, you get into a booth, you get nervous. You, you do. Yeah. That's, absolutely. But I always say, "Before you get into that booth, just think of that big, you want to be outside that creative, small little bubble here, but you want to be outside of it."
Yeah. Go in that way. Go in that way, and they will pull you in- Yeah ... if it's over the top.
John: I think what Michelle seems to be, and, and I get it, right? Mm-hmm. So I think what Michelle is kinda mentally dealing with, right- Mm-hmm ... i- is, um ... It's like when someone says, "Be expressive."
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: In Michelle's mind, maybe it's, "Oh, I, I, I, I
But not everything is ex- There's, there's shades of gray in everything- Yeah ... right? Mm-hmm. So yes, absolutely, you are [00:07:00] right. There are different, if you wanna call them, levels, right? Yeah. There's, but there's different levels of expression.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Um, and, and as far as the term overacting, I understand ... I think part of it is- Mm
as a new voice actor-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: we feel silly.
Tina: Oh, absolutely, yes. But
John: I'm telling you, it's not going to come through like you think. Mm. I tell this to people, and when they hear it back, they know.
Tina: Yeah.
John: I've had many people where I'm doing their demo-
Tina: Mm-hmm ...
John: and I say, "I'm telling you, please, just be over the top."
And then, then they do it- Mm-hmm ... and I'll play it back for them, and they go, "Oh, wow, that doesn't- Yeah ... sound anything like I thought." Yep, I get that all the time. I'm like, "Right, right. It doesn't- Yes ... sound like you think." Yeah. You think you're being, like, you know, like, ab- absurdly over the top. Mm-hmm. You think that.
Tina: Yep.
John: But believe me, when I play that back, you're not going to think that. Oh, no. And it's every time. I've never had anyone go, "Wow-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: I sound over the top." No. Yeah. Everyone goes, "Wow, it doesn't sound anything like I thought it sounded." Yeah. So my advice is be overly expressive if you ... A- and then let whatever it is.
Like, like [00:08:00] if, you know- Yeah ... I'll let, hey, I'll give you one. If I say friendly and informative, doesn't sound like a, an over the top, but- Yeah ... I really want you to be- Oh, yes ... big smile.
Tina: Big smile, yep. "Hey,
John: come on in tomorrow." I want that because I know you think you're being corny. Mm-hmm. That's the, right?
Yeah. That's when people kinda, "Oh, I'm being corny." But believe me, when I play this back- Mm-hmm ... you're not gonna, you're not gonna hear it like that. Yeah, no. You're gonna go, "Oh, wow, I'm, I'm barely friendly."
Tina: Yeah.
John: And they go, "That's right. I need more. I need more."
Tina: Yeah, sh- definitely. And I ... Though also, the other thing is, because when you were talking about Michelle, like, sometimes we are, we are af- afraid to do it.
Mm-hmm. You know, afraid to. But, or, like, "Oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna look silly," or, or something like that. Always remember, nobody sees you. Nobody sees you. Nobody sees you. And most of them are time, like, um, even, even when you're in the booth, you don't even see the engineer or the producer. They're in a whole nother room.
You're in that booth by yourself. Have fun with it. They want you to. And that's,
John: it- And those are the people we bring back too.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Right? I mean, when you ... Professionally, let's say. Mm-hmm. So when you hire for a professional job and you come in- L- [00:09:00] how about this? I think we've all kind of seen this. It may- maybe depends on age.
Yeah. I want you to picture, you've seen the, the videos, the video footage of Robin Williams in a vocal booth.
Tina: Oh, yes. Yep.
John: Right?
Tina: Yeah.
John: You think they didn't love working with that guy? They loved it. Yeah. They never had to say, "Hey, go f- I need you to do more."
Tina: Yeah.
John: Now keep in mind, most of what he was doing was animation.
Yes.
Tina: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
John: We, I get it. I get it. Yeah. Um, yes, it always has to be an appropriate level of expression for- Mm-hmm ... whatever you're doing. A, a appropriate tone.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Like, right? But when you come in and, and you just go for it-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: even if we th- okay, I, I always say there's no wrong or right, 'cause it's kind of just really interpretation, right?
Tina: Yeah, that's right.
John: But even if we think you're wrong, for example- Mm-hmm ... like you interpret it in a word like, that's not at all how we interpret. Yeah. But if you went for it, I'm all about it. Yeah. Like I'm like, "All right, that's not k- how I saw it. Let's switch it up a little bit." But in my mind I'm thinking, "Okay, she's gonna have no problem doing this."
Tina: Yeah.
John: No problem doing this because she just went for it. Yeah. That's the type of voice actor we like. So don't worry about that. [00:10:00] Don't, don't get caught up in, "I don't wanna overact." Overact. Overact.
Tina: That's what
John: I call it. Go outside of that box. Be overly expressive. Yes. Let us pull you back. Mm-hmm. I'm telling you, everybody.
I don't, I don't think there's a producer in this industry- Mm-hmm ... that would ever think to themselves, "Uh, that person's too expressive." Oh,
Tina: yeah. Well, I'm sorry. It
John: just doesn't happen. Yeah. It
Tina: doesn't happen. You went overboard. We
John: get it. Be too expressive. Yes. Be too expressive.
Tina: No, and yeah, d- go for it.
That's what I say. Definitely go for it. Have fun with it. Most of the time it is. You're, it's a lot of fun. Even if you're doing a corporate read, it does not matter. It's still fun. Yes. Yeah. You know? And that's the thing. But just, you can always ask them questions. They, I always say this, nicest people in this industry, uh, producers and engineers, because they know how we feel in that booth.
You feel comfortable in the booth, they're gonna get a great read from us. Ask them questions. Yeah. They don't mind at all.
John: Oh, no. Not at all. Yeah. And, and that goes for everything, even if there's a word you're not sure about.
Tina: Oh, absolutely. I always do that.
John: Yeah.
Tina: I'll butcher a word right, left and right.
Yeah, yeah. So I'm gonna
John: ask them. Absolutely. So [00:11:00] yeah, d- so that, that would be, I hope... Did we cover everything she asked? I feel like there w- it was a longer question than that. Yeah. Let me look at my
Tina: phone again.
John: Yeah, well, yeah. I don't wanna, I don't wanna like not answer anything. I know.
Tina: I know. And then- I'm pretty sure we did
John: I think so too, but let me... I, I flagged. Oh, there we go. So I flagged. Okay. Uh, oh, we can also cover, you said that- Mm-hmm Um, Michelle is saying another question, and Michelle did try to send it to me. I just want Michelle to know-
Tina: Oh, okay ...
John: that, and Michelle must have figured it out. Mm-hmm. Uh, when Michelle sent the question, I didn't ignore it.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Uh, Michelle put [email protected]. Yeah. It's not what it is. Mm-mm. It's johng- G, yep ... @voicecoaches.com. I wish it was just John, like it's just Tina, but-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: it's not. So it's [email protected]. So I didn't get that question. You did. Mm-hmm, yep. Uh, so I didn't ignore it, by the way. Yeah. I, I know it was sent in March.
I didn't ignore it. I try to get back to people- Mm-hmm ... ASAP. Uh, so, um, let me think. Um, I, I think we did kind of answer [00:12:00] all this.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: Mm, mm, mm. Yeah. And there, yeah, you're right. There's different levels. You have to un- understand the piece. Again, a- ask yourself who are you, who are you talking to, what are you saying?
Yes. Yeah. And then, and then, you know, you figure that out, and then- Mm-hmm ... be appropriate. Yeah. So appropriate.
Tina: Yeah.
John: And, uh, yeah. Uh, so now what was the question?
Tina: She was asking about singing- Sure ... and voice acting.
John: Yeah.
Tina: You know? To me, in my mind that I was thinking more of, like, jingles, like radio jingles- Sure
and things like that. Because you still s- hear those, absolutely hear those- Yeah.
John: I don't- ...
Tina: all, all the time.
John: Do you? Yeah. I s- well-
Tina: Well, 'cause I work in radio too. You work in radio, yeah. So I, yeah, that's all I
John: hear. Yeah. I never hear them because I don't listen to ra- I, like, uh, I don't listen to terrestrial radio much- Oh, geez.
Yeah, yeah ... anymore. Um, I don't even know the channels, to be honest. Yeah. I listen to podcasts and- Yeah ... and, uh, music on Apple Music. But a podcast I don't hear jingles, so they're still do- they're still happening. They're still, yep. So that's good.
Tina: They still do it. All right. They still do them. So
John: jingles are still happening, so there you go- Mm-hmm
as far as that goes. Um, also I will say the part of singing that really is [00:13:00] still out there- Mm-hmm ... a l- a lot of is animation.
Tina: Oh, yeah. Yeah. You
John: know, like, um, you know, you know, obviously Disney does a ton of it. Mm-hmm. You're not gonna be getting to that level right away, but-
Tina: Yeah ...
John: but there's still animation on- Mm-hmm
more of a regional level or- Yeah ... you know, a lower level that, that also has singing. It's like- Mm-hmm ... music theater almost.
Tina: Yeah. Yeah.
John: So yeah, uh, singing can actu- absolutely be an asset in this.
Tina: Mm-hmm.
John: So, um, yeah. I mean,
Tina: uh- And it, you know, and it all depends. Like, I've had students who have, their background is in singing, and I might even, depending on the script, say, "Let's throw it in there, just to show what you can do."
John: Yeah, let's do a quick little,
Tina: yeah. Yeah, just a quick, you know, it's just one or two lines. We've got, we've got one, um, script, and it talks about, um, uh, it w- it's actually an audiobook, you know? So it, it, uh, talks about a car and their radio and the Beatles song coming on. If I know that person can, if my student can sing, "Sing that line for me.
Go ahead." And they'll, and I'll put it in there. Yeah.
John: Put it
Tina: in there. Yeah. You know? There you go. Just to show that you can do it. It, yet will they hear that and say, "Oh, [00:14:00] let's s- ha- have you sing the whole book?" No. And
John: that'd be something different. No, not sing the
Tina: whole book, but yeah, you never know. But you never know.
John: You'd be surprised where singing goes in. I, I'll, I'll give you an example- Mm ... 'cause I knew a, I knew a guy who worked for Hasbro as a voice actor.
Tina: Okay.
John: And he had, uh, uh, by the way, here, there's another lesson to this- Mm ... which is never say you can do something you can't.
Tina: Yeah.
John: So they said they, so because he did so much voiceover work for Hasbro, they, they asked him at one point, "Hey, do you sing?"
And in his mind, he thought, "I can carry a tune." Yeah. But he, he didn't know they meant sing sing. Oh. So he, he said, "Oh, yeah, I can sing." Turns out he can't sing. Like he, he goes, "I can like carry a tune." Yeah. I didn't real- And he was telling me this. He goes, he's telling me this story. He said, "And so it turned out they really needed me to sing, like a singer."
Oh. And he goes, "They were so, eh, they were so annoyed with me 'cause I said I could sing that they, they..." He said they didn't hire him for like a month. Oh. And it was like steady work for him. He goes, "They did not hire me for a month. They were so mad that I said I could sing, but I wasn't a singer." Oh,
Tina: wow.
John: Yeah.
Tina: All right. Yeah.
John: Because it was like full singing in toys. Yeah. All right. Like it was, it was like full singing parts. So they did end up bringing him [00:15:00] back luckily. Yeah. You know, they really liked him, but I think they were teaching him a little lesson, you know? Yeah. "
Tina: Don't say you can sing
John: if you can't sing."
Don't say. So yes, they're singing in toys a- Mm-hmm ... as well. Yeah. Still, uh, to this day. So there's many things that you can sing out there. Um, so yeah, it's out there. I, you know, um, I used to sing. I used to- Yeah ... I shouldn't say I used to sing. I can still sing, but I don't, I, I, I have a kind of singing voiceover.
I used to get jingles.
Tina: Yeah. See, that's, yeah.
John: Choppa and Sons Formal Wear. I, I did that. Yeah. I did, there's a lot of s- uh, jingles, I shouldn't say a lot, but I did a f- a few jingles- Mm-hmm ... uh, back in the past, but I haven't gotten anything like that in a- Yeah ... really long time.
Tina: Well, that's it. So now I'm even, you just got me thinking about a lot of those commercials, those, um, the ones with the medical disclaimers, they're, they have all music in the background, and sometime you hear the singing too.
Do they? So yeah, so they're still out there, definitely.
John: Sure.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Yeah, no, they're there, yeah. Yeah. I just don't think they're as prevalent. They used to be so... I mean- Yeah ... everything used to have a-
Tina: Yes, everything was singing. Everything.
John: Everything.
Tina: Yeah.
John: Yeah. All right, cool. Yeah. So there we go. Michelle, thank you so- Thank you
[00:16:00] much. There we go. Yeah. See, if you can be like Michelle- ... and can ask questions that I haven't, we haven't gotten yet, I, you know, I, what I don't wanna do, listen everybody, I'm not ignoring your questions, so if you've sent me questions- Mm-hmm ... let me just say that. Go back to our question and answer 'cause we, I, I think maybe they missed that episode, and maybe they're new- Yeah
listeners, right?
Tina: Yeah. That's true. Yeah.
John: I, we, we did a whole listener questions episode. Mm-hmm. And most of the questions I'm getting right now are literally the same questions.
Tina: The same ones. Yeah, yeah. So.
John: So Michelle had a new one. Yeah. Thank you. So listen to that episode- Mm-hmm ... and then g- give us a new one.
And w- we could do, like something like this we can make into a whole episode.
Tina: Oh, yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.
John: Absolutely. Well, thank you very much, Michelle, and I hope you enjoy this episode. And, uh, so again, uh, John G at Voice Coaches. Mm-hmm. John G- G, put the
Tina: G
John: in there ... @voicecoaches.com.
Tina: And [email protected].
John: Thank you so much for listening, everyone. We out.
John and Tina take an amazing question from Michele L and turn it into an entire episode.
